LATEST COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE INDUSTRY SHIFTS IN GOVERNMENT POLICY, LAND USE AND PROPERTY DEVELOPMENT

CRECo_RERT_10-06-22

[00:00:00] Andreas Senie: Welcome back to this month's round table your all in one comprehensive view of what's happening across the real estate industry. Trade from some of the industry's earliest technology adopters, foremost experts in technology, marketing, brokerage, government policy, capital, construction, and cyber. As always, this is a three part show introductions, What's new for each round table.

Host sector focus, part two, biggest news paradigm shifts. And then part three, what does this mean for your business? How can you capitalize on, uh, these insights and grow your business here in q4? I'm enjoy a sunny founder of cra, collaborative brokerage owner and technology growth strategist for both the nonprofit and for-profit sectors.

And joining me this month is none other than Saline realtor, ERUs, data advocate, good friend futurist, as well as Rebecca Carlson, founder and CEO Carlson integrating past President Naar, professor Darren Hayes, CEO Code Detectives, one of the top 10 forensic computer scientists in the country, as well as Dan Wagner, senior Vice President at Inland Real Estate Group of companies and all things government relations.

And Dan, you look especially. Uh, especially G Man today. We can go with the inland sign, tie it all. I, I 

[00:01:35] Dan Wagner: just tell you, I have to dress up when I come around you cuz you're so smart. I gotta try to like, make up for my inadequacy 

[00:01:42] Andreas Senie: somehow. I feel the same way, but, but towards Saul and I think we each have some, you know, we just wake away around the table.

So that all being said, uh, what's new for each host? I, I'll start. Uh, as far as the real estate brokerage, real recalibrating is next necessary Q4 in what's, let's call it, uh, uncertain headwinds is where we're at. Uh, in my market we've been doubling down on density finding or repurposing assets. What can we do to repurpose an asset and then shop it out?

That's the biggest news or shift in my side of the field. Saul, how are things in California? 

[00:02:25] Saul Klein: Well, you know, we have, um, SB nine and 10, which allows for, uh, increasing density. You know, that's not new. It's about a year old, but it's getting more visibility. And recently we had an interesting, uh, bill signed by the governor that allows for, uh, people that own strip centers to be able to reposition, to build, uh, and make the mixed use to build residential on top of the strip centers, uh, by, Right, So you won't have to go through all of the processes by Right.

You'll have that. And that was recently signed. So the, the, in California, what we're seeing is that housing policy, this is the kind of the belief right

[00:03:09] Andreas Senie: to religion 

[00:03:10] Saul Klein: really been effective

housing policy hasn't been effective nationwide. And because housing policy is controlled at the lowest level, So if you think we've got problems, we've got homelessness, we got housing affordability, remember that It's always house policies controlled at the local level. And so finally what? And only for the last hundred years.

So it looks like in California anyway, the California legislature has decided, uh, that it's kind of interesting because if you look at who controls the legislature, but to say, to usurp the rights of the locals and say, you know, you haven't done a very good job. You got too much homelessness, you got too much, uh, non affordability.

So we are going to take control at the state level and we're gonna allow things that, that we're gonna give property rights back to property owners. And that's pretty big news, I 

[00:04:02] Andreas Senie: think. So that's a yes in my backyard. It's, it's something we touched on in a prior episode and, and interesting you bring that up, all the macro data in the world.

What doesn't matter in this environment. It's about your market, things in your market, those opportunities. So happy to hear that Density's also on your mind. Seems like a great discussion. Becca, how are things over in the marketing world in Illinois? Well, 

[00:04:28] Bekah Carlson: as you know, I represent and work with a number of commercial real estate owners in my marketing practice.

And one piece that I have been excited to see is so many retail leases occurring. Many of our clients are leasing up their shopping centers. We are seeing momentum in the retail field that seems to be quiet for a little while there. That is a very important piece of our business in an important aspect of commercial real estate.

I am very excited because I'm actually sponsoring an event on Adaptive for use next week, and we're gonna hear from a bunch of municipalities where there, we've got a mayor, we've got a couple of economic development directors talking about the environments in their municipalities as well as the brokers put together some deals.

Saul, I wish you were here because I think you would love to go

[00:05:15] CRE Tech NY: to this right up your alley. 

[00:05:20] Andreas Senie: All things policy coming up on this call so far. Darren, nice to see you up back for the round table. Quick shout out Friday. This coming Friday, following Friday, uh, Darren Sector interview will be live for everyone to tune in.

How are things in the cyber security world? Any policy changes there? Let's keep that theme going. . Yeah, there 

[00:05:40] Darren Hayes: there are, Yeah, there are actually some, some interesting policy changes coming up, um, regarding, um, ransomware. So it looks like it in some states, they're discussing how government agencies and contractors will not be allowed to, um, pay the ransom.

Of course, ransomware is a huge problem. You know, a number of years ago the FBI said that, uh, ransomware attacks numbered about. Uh, 4,000 a day, but we're, we're gradually increasing year over year. And, um, just, you know, this may be the way of the future and also the issue with cyber insurance. So cyber insurance may not be granted to companies who end up paying a ransom.

So, but lots of interesting things. Geopolitical matched with ransomware and other cyber attacks continue to be a trend, you know, with what's going on with Russia and Ukraine and Russia against, uh, the West as well. 

[00:06:40] Andreas Senie: So, so these repurposing and reuse, we might see some, some, some things come up as far as what's needed for those owners, those projects.

Sure. So that's fantastic. Dan, I know, I know you've got things on policy and how, how's the world over there at Inland? Well, the 

[00:06:56] Dan Wagner: inland is doing great. I'm, uh, I'm really proud of our, uh, our property management division and did a, a great job with the properties that, uh, that we, uh, own. Um, During the, uh, the hurricane, it really, uh, batten down the hatches.

And we have, I'm just proud of, of the work that our property management team is just better than, than, uh, anything. We're just, they're gold plated. So, um, that's been, that was very, very positive for, uh, for inland, obviously. Um, my, uh, my title of my, what I, I do is I'm the Senior Vice President of Government Relations.

So what's gonna be happening, uh, pretty soon, well, November 8th, right? That's gonna be the, uh, the midterm elections. So I'll, uh, when you want me to, I will be able to go into more in depth and talk about what's happening in this senate and what's happening in the house. So whenever you want me to, to, uh, to, to start forth on, on that adventure, I, I have plenty of information to give you

[00:07:55] Andreas Senie: Well, before we do that, I, I have a question for, for Saul on the re on repurposing of the double density rather. Uh, so. In California are, What about height restrictions, Unit accountant coverage? That seems to be the biggest impediment to, to developing this affordable housing. I got, oh, he's got a charter book or a white thing.

I took some notes. 

[00:08:15] Saul Klein: I, I was sitting in a, uh, all day presentation on SB nine and 10 the other day, and they really was real interesting because they talked about unleashing the swarm, right? And so unleashing the swarm means it's not only the zoning, but it's also, uh, building codes. It's also permitting.

And if you really want to be able to move forward, you can't just move forward by, you know, changing by legislation. You all, you have to push further and you have to push into building codes. And so it seems like that's, uh, what's happening. So those tricks that people might use to stimi growth, right? Um, maybe they're not gonna be able to use that in the future.

Because the state said, give me a lot more flexibility. So right now, that seems to be the rub. People are figuring out. There's still ways to ty me some of this, but I think they're gonna figure this out in California. And, um, but that's an issue right now, right? You build as many as you want, but if they put restrictive building codes up and you can't build the code, what difference does it make?

[00:09:18] Andreas Senie: And, and, um, Dan is is there's something at the national level coming policy wise to help us there in November. Not to unleash you too early on this . 

[00:09:30] Dan Wagner: Well, uh, you know, it is, uh, it's very interesting to see what's gonna happen. Um, Right now we divide Administrator has, um, unfettered control where they have that the Democrats are in charge of the House and Senate.

And so, um, there's not a lot of pushback when they are putting forward different proposals like, um, uh, Waters of the us. Uh, so that's, that's a proposal that suggests that if you have a drainage ditch, that that's gonna be an navigable waterway. And, uh, and that's been pretty, um, controversial for the farming community.

So the Realtors Land Institute, um, it's clearly something that they're, they're watching and just across the board it's the, the regulations are more been. So the, um, the idea of one of the ch the chambers switching over to be Republican is, um, a pretty big thing. Uh, but I, you know, I again could go into that.

What if you. 

[00:10:27] Andreas Senie: And Becca, as far as, as your developers and your clients are out there marketing these things. I mean, on the ground, are they running into these impediments? Are they aware of it, working around it? As Sal pointed out, uh, to California, I'm sure Illinois's got its own height, weight, and 

[00:10:44] CRE Tech NY: in 

[00:10:44] Bekah Carlson: my backyard, Right?

You want development friendly municipalities. And that's one of the reasons we're doing this panel next week, for instance, is that we know that we, we've got a land assemblage that we're working on adjacent to a technology park where the first question I'm getting from inquiries is, What's the zoning?

What's the zoning? And explaining that they actually have a history of being friendly to developers. They have a history of wanting to work with developers and they recognize a need in that community. Obviously, that's not always the case. It's all said it's 

[00:11:15] Andreas Senie: local. Yeah, local market. And it's funny, um, the, the city of Boston had an incredible.

Uh, it may still have a director of economic development showed up about seven, 10 years ago, and he's, he took GE from us, one of the biggest taxpayers in the state of Connecticut. Um, through incentive, through friendly development. I mean, he just picked him up and took him Since then, that property was taken over by Sacred Heart.

Now that, now the, it's not taxable. It's a non-profit property. And, and that's where we are. So, uh, having those friendly, develop, development friendly municipalities by far is, is the way too proper tax rules and alleviating the burden. I was gonna go ahead. 

[00:12:01] Dan Wagner: I was gonna highlight to you, um, the thing, I, I was in a meeting with the National Association Realtors this week and I was just floored.

One of the things that, uh, that they're dealing with, um, is the, uh, New York wants to try in the efforts of, and obviously we love sustainability and the environment. Um, But they're wanting to really stop all, uh, natural gas, uh, appliances in your house. So they want to try to get rid of, um, any furnaces, anything that's, they want everything to go electric.

And so that is a major, uh, issue for, uh, the real estate community in New York right now, , And I didn't, I didn't realize that was out there, but you know, I, I think, um, the battle of who can be more progressive? So California, they said no cars in a couple years, and now they're trying to, they're, they're trying to, it's not locked in yet, but they're trying to say, Let's get rid of all the furnaces and any, you know, your gas grills, your gas, um, you, you're, uh, you know, any of that stuff.

And it's, you know, thank God we have these associations because they really are on the front line for us, um, standing in the barre many times. And so, uh, the realtors are trying to, uh, wake people up and say, this is real. Um, and. So many times, time and time again, these associations all around the country, um, they're half the government affairs directors and it just blows your mind.

Um, think, you know, the, the, these kind of ideas are being brought up . And, and 

[00:13:33] Saul Klein: when you talk in New New York, didn't they in New York, didn't they match California? I just read the other day, match California on the car deal where they said no, they matched them. So now you got New York and California both saying no internal combustion engines after 2 20, 35.

And, and, and that's a much bigger picture, right? We're now talking about going up to a hundred thousand feet because when you throw that out there, whether or not you can make that happen in 2035, you're gonna create all kinds of set, all kinds of other wheels and. Yes. And right. And so it's like, even if it's like, Well that's ipo, that's impossible.

Cause it doesn't matter that it's impossible. What are you doing if you're running a business? You gotta kind of prepare for the fact that maybe it's not impossible. And so it's gonna deter, right? There's so, there's all this, when people say, Well, don't worry about it and never happen. That's not the intent.

The intent is to move things in a certain direction. In some cases. I like the direction, I like higher density, I like greater walkability. I'd love it if less people drove and we had a cleaner environment, right? So all those things kind of make sense, but it's how you go about doing it, I think. And that's the issue, right?

[00:14:40] Andreas Senie: And as, as you know, even with supply chain issues, retooling trucks, you know, no, no, no combustible engines. Now that's a whole new expense. You've just thrown into the mix. I don't even know what on 

[00:14:53] Saul Klein: that. What if electric's not the. What if we spend all this money on an electrical solution and it turns out that that's not the right energy solution.

If the government ever done that before, have we ever done that with housing project? A lot of different things the government's done over the years. It turns out that we solved the wrong problem, right? Or we put the right money on the wrong problem. So all this stuff about, it's the electric card, it's the electric cards, the electric card that's got issues, that's got battery issues, it's got, where does the power come from?

The bottom line for me is who says that's necessarily the solution, but we're kind of putting, they're putting that stake in the ground, which forces all this economic to kind of revolve around what this government in is 15 years from now or whatever. And so the other, the other issue, when you do 

[00:15:40] Dan Wagner: all that, Your grid's gotta be able to handle all that, uh, capacity that's gonna need it.

And when you're just doing you, you know, you wanna go to just the wind and solar, that's what you're gonna, you know, when, when it's windy and when it's sunny, you're gonna get some good stuff. But being able to store that energy while when it's made and then to be able to use it when it's needed, that's the part that happened in Texas when the, the turbines froze.

people are outta power 

[00:16:05] Saul Klein: In California, we can only get a certain percentage of the energy has to come from renewable sources. So you have to get that before you can, uh, you know, get the remainder. And so part of the, so here we are in California. Where the grid mandates what type of energy, they're kind of mandating electric cars by a certain year.

And then they had to say, Don't charge your electric cars between this hour and this hour, because if you do, we're gonna have a blackout and we don't have enough power. So it's like the remedies they're proposing, there's no way that they can really work in the future. And again, I think a lot of this is just positioning and that will require a lot of adjusting on people's parts and force things in a direction, whether or not it ends up, um, where it's stated it should, will end up, you know, in 2035 or whatever year it is.

[00:16:53] Andreas Senie: Well, I, I think it spurs the investment community, the investors out there to fund these ideas, to get the, the leaps in technology to get us there. The batteries, right. Investment in battery tech. So houses can store more than I think, uh, Tesla. The Tesla battery, residential battery, if you buy it, I think is four hours.

It'll power your house for four hours. That's today. That didn't exist a year ago. They couldn't. So it's, it's by putting that stake in the ground, to your point, all May, it's a, it's its direction. It's like heading north, but at least we've set the direction and it's helped the investment community, not just investment communities, but back to adaptive reuse.

It's helped focus developers on environmentally sound projects, at least in my, in my area. And not to mention Darren, I'm sure from a cyber security perspective, going all, all battery means all computer and if you, It's all computer, it's at risk 

[00:17:52] Saul Klein: back 

[00:17:52] Darren Hayes: up. Yeah. Well, well, I, I mean, 90% of, of computing power, it goes into cooling that computer.

Um, there's another one. Yeah. So, but we can, we can, you know, we switch to solid state drives, we use a lot less electricity. You don't need a fan in those computers. Um, but, you know, it's interesting, and again, I, I know very little about real estate and construction, but. I know that in Europe, a lot of houses get this energy rating and they, they provide a lot of information about how you can improve that energy rating.

But, but what's interesting is, you know, I heard somebody not so long ago say, is it true that they actually build houses in America sometimes with, with timber and sheet rock and, and that's it. Uh, yeah. But don't you know how much heat you're losing from, from that construction, that type of construction, Right.

So, so these office buildings are really a lot better in terms of, um, you know, maintaining temperatures and, you know, very good insulation versus some of these houses that, that, uh, that we have, you know, in Long Island, for example, where I lived, where I live, um, all of these thousands of houses were built in, in, uh, two years, two year timeframe.

And, uh, People who went to redo their insulation were actually finding newspapers behind the Sheetrock with the year in 1953 and 1954 . 

[00:19:20] Andreas Senie: And that was qu, That's quality insulation for the Rack . And that's being green in recycling. Anna Maria's not on the call, but you know, there's your CPAC loan at work or in 1950 or

I love it. And it, and without the combustible engine saw, I mean the car wash business, I don't know, it's just you. I'll tell you what, the 

[00:19:39] Saul Klein: car wash businesses are really a good, I was up there the other day and so we're 10% over last year. Things are really good and I took my granddaughter up there, she'd never seen it.

She's 26 and she'd never seen the car wash. So I took her up and we walked around the car wash. Real standard, basic kind of business, right? Revenue expenses can take credit cards, take token. So just a real great lesson for her. But it's real interesting to me. The place is always busy and um, and with increased density.

You know that you're gonna re I'm gonna reach this point, I'm sure where we're gonna say, should we let somebody come in and build an apartment building on this property, or is the car wash business so good? We ought to rip the houses down next door and build a couple more car wash stalls. Right. Right.

So, 

[00:20:20] Dan Wagner: so what happens in like Las Vegas when they're having this big water short shortage Cuz of lake Me? Do they cancel car washes? Well, I 

[00:20:27] Saul Klein: don't know. Here's what happened. San Diego, California weren't a water shortage. Weren't in a drought, right? You can't, uh, you have to be, we can only water during certain times of the day.

And so order declared drought here. What the city council here did in San Diego as they passed a, an ordinance that says you can't wash your cars at your apartment buildings. If you're gonna wash your car, you have to take it to a car wash. Isn't that helpful? There, there are many advantages of taking your car to a car wash that's collected.

The stuff's cleaned. I mean right. You don't waste water. It's under pressure. I mean, legitimately washing your car to car wash is much more effective and efficient. And here in San Diego we have an ordinance now that says, this is where you should go to wash your car. And so we're very appreciative 

[00:21:06] Dan Wagner: donations Did that take to make happen for you?

[00:21:10] Saul Klein: tell We bought this in 1979. And we've just been good, uh, neighbors in the community for all these years, and that must be what made it happen for us. Right. That's awesome. 

[00:21:21] Dan Wagner: That's great. I, I mean, 

[00:21:22] Darren Hayes: in, in Italy at some other countries in Europe, they have, um, different rates for electricity usage, different types of times of the day.

So people actually wait up and do their laundry after midnight. Is do you think that that will happen in California or is it happening 

[00:21:40] Saul Klein: there? Actually, there are different rates for different, uh, age groups and so there, there, that's set up to where that could take place. I haven't seen it where specifically you get a different rate at it, but yeah, it's all po very possible here.

Um, it's just, uh, they need the money. They'll figure out a way to get 

[00:22:00] Andreas Senie: the, uh, the, the greatest experience I've had out there, uh, as far as rates and and so forth is when I was staying in India, whenever you'd leave the hotel room, your hotel key actually powered the room itself. So you'd have you actually go into the room and stick the card in the, in the slot, in the wall.

So the minute you left the room with your key, there was no power. So if you're not in the room, there's no power and that's how you can serve. And that's how they, you know, they were rating it and keeping consumption down. So who knows, maybe that's on the road. 

[00:22:31] Dan Wagner: I was at Mik, uh, in France with that exact experience at my hotel and I was an idiot cuz I came into the hotel room, like the lights don't work and I had to go downstairs to the lobby and the guys like, You're an idiot.

He said it in a nice French way. 

[00:22:46] Darren Hayes: that does, that happens in Ireland and in the UK as well. And I know that the hotels as well, when you're walking along the corridor, that the lights gradually come on as you walk down the hallway. So they, they they do that as well. Yeah. But, but cars are a lot more expensive for.

[00:23:02] Andreas Senie: So, and, and bringing, bringing this around to real estate and development. All of the, at least in my market, the owners of developments of who have retrofitted or upgraded through CPAC are otherwise, uh, to have these type of mechanisms are doing better. Because at the same time, they not only were they investing in solar or in, um, technology to turn the heat up and down, turn the lights on and off when they're there to save on pause, but they were also investing in amenities and, and lifestyle.

And so, as you mentioned, doubled, uh, higher density walkability. This, this whole shift in office use, making it more, I don't wanna say like home, but uh, with more qu with more quality amenities, having that, that jam and so forth. Yeah. 

[00:23:49] Saul Klein: You know, that really falls into the category of, um, land use. And we've talked about this before, that what's happening in the country, We're seeing dramatic shift in land use policies and for a number of reasons that we've talked about.

So as you see this shift taking place in, in land use, you're gonna see the results of that, which is intended to be less driving people living close together, people living close to mass transit, um, increased densities to drive the price of the land down so that you can increase affordability. All these are, you know, conscious efforts that are being, that are taking place right now.

We don't necessarily see it, but, but it's all happening. 

[00:24:27] Andreas Senie: Well, as speaking of, of not necessarily seeing it, we spoke earlier on the ice exchange in these macro ships, things that have all started 10 years ago. So is what we're seeing today, these, these changes in environmental, were these 10, are these 10 year old initiatives, or are we getting better at, uh, executing on the needs of our communities?

[00:24:51] Saul Klein: Well, I think land use policy has set many years in advance. And give you an example here in San Diego, we have a light rail system. The light rail system was proposed and installation began probably in the mid eighties, and still they're completing these lines. And now what we're seeing is increased density, uh, projects being built around the, these stations.

I went out yesterday, I couldn't believe how huge this project was in a very familiar area for me. And I, it caught my eye. And so I actually went back up. The trolley goes right in front of the apartment building. You could, if you're on that level, you could step outside of your apartment, like six stories, which is high in San Diego, a whole city block right there, uh, on the trolley line.

So what's gonna happen are these, these, uh, neighborhoods, communities, higher density built around mass transit, That's all the intent. They started putting that trolley in 30, 40 years ago. So they, so this I. Policy, land use policy, and um, city planning that that takes place many years in advance. It takes a lot of time to get it in motion.

Yeah. Hopefully we can see things and react quicker, but a lot of this takes a long time. So in my mind, we've been pushing this way for a, for a long time. Right. And now you're just starting to see some of it and the, all the money allocated over the last couple years. It's kind of accelerated this a little bit.

[00:26:15] Dan Wagner: The other aspect of that, so like in Chicago for example, and I would imagine in San Francisco you, you have these issues of safety and I know, um, Andre and I were talking offline before the show. The, uh, the issue like in, in Illinois we have a new safety act where, uh, basically, you know, the whole bail system, um, there's New Jersey, there's New York that has no cash bail.

And where Illinois is is like New York and we're, we're looking on January 1st, they have all of our jails opened up and anybody. It's un in bail that they'll be able to be, And there's lots of concerns that businesses have because we have another part of that law that says that, um, you can't touch a trespasser.

So if somebody comes into your business, um, and they, they're not threatening, then you can't really do anything. You can get, you can call the cops and they give 'em a ticket, but they don't make 'em leave. So there's aspects of safety that, that really impact people. And in Chicago, um, the, the amount of, uh, of people being shot every weekend, and I mean, that's taking a toll and people are, are so, people are not wanting to be in different parts of this beautiful cause.

Chicago is beautiful, but it's, uh, the whole safety aspect of things and, um, not just Chicago, but other urban areas. That's, uh, it, you know, with the idea of, of the. Progressive area where people have had, you know, legitimate concerns with how people have been treated. It seems like the pendulum has swung a little bit further and we're looking for it to moderate.

So that's been, that's one of the issues that I know in regards to, uh, real estate people are getting nervous about. 

[00:27:51] Andreas Senie: Well, so it sounds like no amount of marketing's gonna get me to invest in Chicago in January, . Well, I'll never, 

[00:27:58] Dan Wagner: I'll never tell you that. . I love you. 

[00:28:02] Darren Hayes: I would just like to make a quick point on the, on the piggy, backing off what Dan said, technology, we have high definition video cameras available that at a very cheap price you wouldn't believe, uh, you know, as you, as you know, I do a lot of digital forensics, How many very blurred video feeds I'm asked to examine, um, from very big corporations that haven't upgraded these cameras for years and years.

It happens even in these metro areas that we're, are experiencing high crime. I know people, for example, in in law enforcement and prosecutors who've said that, that, you know, crime in New York has never been worse. Um, but we have this really, really bad quality of, of closed circuit television camera feeds that uh, people are still being asked to, to look at these days.

That, that just can't solve a lot of these crimes. Hit and runs is another big problem as well. 

[00:29:02] Andreas Senie: So in our sector interview, Darren, we, we touched a bit on this and cybersecurity is, is, is kind of a. Uh, pigeonhole the, the whole term, right? Cause it's personal security and it's physical security. When people stand to what you were speaking about, letting people roam around your store, or not being able to disallow them to roam around your store, that's, that's, that could be a threat.

How do you protect from that threat upgrading your systems? Cyber cybersecurity includes cameras, right? Uh, who knows? Maybe there'll be a, an update to CPAC to include, uh, investments in your IT infrastructure. Less about clean energy, but more about, uh, clean living and keeping people together. That's ideas.

Those are, Yeah, well I, you know, let me gimme credit. When you get that to the floor up there, down in Washington, you 

[00:29:51] Saul Klein: know, it doesn't, it, it seems like there's plenty of technology and evidence. I don't, to me it doesn't seem like evidence is the issue anymore. When we got pictures of people going into jewelry stores with sledge hammers and breaking, we got plenty of evidence.

But what we don't have is policy that addresses the problems. And so we just keep getting, and it's getting worse and worse and worse. And so, to address your point again, yeah, I can see people are concerned with safety. It seems like that's a major issue. Should be, should be a major concern for people.

And that goes back to land use. If you think about land use policy, land use policy in this countries for years has been drive to qualify. Right? It's been, you know, move out further, move out further, move out further, keep building more suburbs. Well, it's happened and you can see this anywhere you drive to get about a mile from your house, you'll see that, that the municipality can.

Take care of the weeds that are growing, the fire and police protection, it's taken longer and longer, so you can't, and they can't tax us anymore. So the solution is not land use policy that allows for this continued suburbanization. What has to happen for all these different reasons and we're seeing it begin to happen, is we have to bring people back in closer for different reasons.

And maybe if we've got people closer, then we've got better police and fire protection because they don't have to service as many miles geographically. I mean, a lot of considerations, but all this stuff is in the, in the ether right now. Right. It's all kind of swirling around in people's conversations and minds.

And 

[00:31:24] Andreas Senie: Well, 

[00:31:25] Darren Hayes: go ahead. So, sorry. I was just gonna say, we have a lot of the technology solutions out there, we just haven't been thinking about them enough. I mean, these smash and grab first of. You know, San Francisco has banned facial recognition, which creates an issue from the start. The second thing is that there are things that we can do.

So if somebody breaks into a store, you know, with your phone or with a button under the counter, you could release these micro RFIDs that disperse. It's just like dust. You can't get it completely off you. And you can use that to track the criminals who drive off, right? Or you can have some kind of, uh, mac address capture in your store that's continually running, and only go to that if, if your store is ripped off.

We have, you know, some police departments have been testing, shooting these darts at cars so that they don't have to run, you know, Chase cars in Hot Pursuit. It has a GPS tracking device. Why can't a security guard use one of those and shoot, shoot it at a car? You can, you can track that person whenever you like.

They don't even hear this dart hitting your car. 

[00:32:32] Saul Klein: So, see, I don't think that's the, See I think they, in the, we, they, we have that and we use it, but then we let 'em out when there's no cash bail and we let 'em out within a short period of time. And to me that's the, we got great tools and you're right, we probably don't use 'em nearly enough, but if we did, we got the tools.

But it doesn't matter cuz they take 'em in and they let 'em go with you. 

[00:32:52] Dan Wagner: Sure. Well, and the, the funny thing, like with Illinois, there's a thing with, you know, for flight risk. So, um, you would think that when you arrest someone and they then they're, they don't have to do bail and then they go and they don't show up for their court case and they get rearrested again.

You can't use that. They didn't show up for their last thing that they get into jail because you, that's not sufficient evidence of a flight risk. The only, like real evidence is if they show you their airline tickets or their train tickets or they tell you they're gonna go out of town. I mean it's, it's just really, um, absurd.

But, you know, it's, it's um, I think. I think when you have, uh, when you have one party, that, and again, I, I'm a, I don't mean to be partisan, but when you, I'm a political science guy. When you have one party rule, it always, I think, messes it up. If you have, you know, people having to work together to come to the middle when we're in the middle, good things happen.

When you're to the right side or left side, I think it messes it up. So I, that's my opinion. 

[00:33:49] Saul Klein: Well, look at Chicago though. Chicago's like, that's, that's the example, isn't it, with a vote, early vote often or something about This has been a conversation for years in Chicago where it's been controlled. Right.

You know, certain groups, whoever they might be, um, over time. Yeah, 

[00:34:05] Dan Wagner: it's, they, they figure out how to get people in the cemeteries to vote in Chicago,

[00:34:13] Andreas Senie: Well, as far as, uh, voting, the Connecticut is, is, well, the Northeast really is, is a, is a hard place to live, and Illinois has its own problem. Chicago has its own problems. California has, uh, is right for the few issues. Um, but what's the best way forward? Here we are at Q4 2022. Are we, are we focusing on the right things at, at three 30,000 square feet for policy?

I, I like the land use stuff. I mean, this paradigm shift is double density. That helps development, that spurs economic growth, that gives jobs to people in, in our local economies for the, the municipalities that are smart, smart enough or, uh, skilled enough, let's say to take advantage of what's coming. I don't know.

And Dan, you do you know what's coming in November? Let me, let's, let's, let's you guys not. 

[00:35:06] Dan Wagner: Okay, so I'll, I'll, uh, I'll get into, does everybody know the Senate, um, now is evenly invited? 50 50? 50 50, And only one seat needs to flip for either party to get in control of the chamber. The Democrats are favored to hold the Senate and potentially pick up a few seats with the exceptions of Ohio and Pennsylvania.

But, uh, most retiring senators are leaving behind safe seats, but the midterm elections tend to hurt the President's party. Obviously, President Biden is a Democrat. The President's Party lied down in the house in 18th, the past 20 midterm elections, and in the Senate 15 of those, However, there have been exceptions to this paradigm.

Democrats, for instance, gained five house seats in 1998, amend the GOP's unpopular efforts. Impeach Clinton and World over congressional midterms tend to experience lower voter turnout compared to presidential elections, but, The upcoming midterm elections, Republicans will likely emphasize rising inflation and consumer prices.

The g o P will also likely run on violent crime rates and immigration, and the Democrats meanwhile will likely champion abortion rights. Though the defeat of the Kansas abortion Amendment indicates that the issue of abortion may mobilize Democrat voters and gun control has also emerged as a top issue in the wake of a series of deadly mass shootings.

So there's about 10 key Senate races. I I can go into any of that stuff, but it's, it's probably too long for me to get into that 

[00:36:27] Andreas Senie: on this call. You can do a sector interview. We can talk talking, 

[00:36:30] Dan Wagner: and then I'll, I'll tell you the other then the, the house. So the current balance, this is the, the big one, I guess, for a change.

The current balance of the house representatives is 221 Democrats and 212 Republicans. This number is less than the full compliment of 435 because of the death. Representative Jackie Wooky from Indiana Rep Christie or Charlie Chris to run for governor of Florida. So the ratio drop to 220 Democrats versus 212 Republicans later this week after the reservation of Representative Howard, uh, Douch.

So the power of incumbency means that just over 30 of those seats are truly contested. Republicans need a net gain of we take over the house control. So recent history going back to 1994 suggests that the odds are on their side, the Republican sites, since voters tend to embrace the party not controlling the White House and midterm elections.

Again, exceptions to that why I talked about, or the, um, the Clinton impeachment, the presidential approval, uh, is usually a leading indicator of midterm results by its approval rating is currently 42 point. So it's, it's risen from, uh, the past, uh, few months. And turnout is typically lower in midterms than in presidential elections, around 40%.

But turnout in 2018 was abnormally high at 53%. So Republicans are running on three major issues. Again, rising inflation and consumer prices, violent crime rates, and immigration, and questions about democratic accomplishments. And, and Democrats are, you know, running on the social issues, as I said, uh, particularly, uh, , the Dobbs decision.

And they're framing the races as anti incumbent, except the incumbents. They're running against the Supreme Court, not the White House or Congress. So, um, that's, that's a big deal. Uh, the National Republican Congressional Campaign Committee is a narrow advantage over their Democrat counterpart and cash on hand.

Democrats are out spending Republicans and third one closest races. Republicans are out spending in 14 races, and they're e roughly equal to four remaining races. So, um, the redistrict, slightly redistricting slightly favors Democrats, uh, districting reduce the number of purple. District. So, uh, the presidential election's invited by five points or fewer, and only 33 of the 22, uh, US House district.

So we, we feel that the, um, that the house, uh, with some of this information, the house is only needs that many to flip over. It's, it seems that it's gonna, the house will become Republican. So that's what, uh, the, the, the people in Las Vegas, if you're making any bets, everybody's betting that the house, uh, it becomes Republican and the Senate remains Democrat.

So, um, divided government I think is a helpful thing. Uh, so people have to come together and, uh, and work to come to the right 

[00:39:06] Andreas Senie: solution. So, so people, everyone on this call's been through a few recessions in real estate, in cyber, in, in their respective industries, divided houses, you said. Um, what does that mean for, for things moving forward in real estate?

Is there is the DST at risk 10 31 exchanges? So, I mean, we're at that double density. No, no, 

we're. 

[00:39:28] Dan Wagner: Looking at, I mean, by having, by having, um, uh, commercial real estate is, uh, is breathing a sigh of relief. I mean, because you have the president still in his budget wants to cap 10 30 ones at $500,000. The good thing is, is that the house wages means committee, um, who they're run by Democrats.

They say no to that. And the, um, the Senate also, um, uh, says no to that as well. But if, uh, I mean we're, the Senate is they just, there's two votes in the Senate have been stopping a lot of stuff. And that's, uh, Joe Mansion and Christian Cinema. Um, but you know, again, if they, if they continue to keep power and gain more seeds, then a lot of stuff that is very controversial, um, could, could happen.

You could get rid of the, of, um, the filibuster rule. If you get rid of the filibuster rule, that means you have 60 votes that you have to get in the Senate to pass anything. If you miss the, if you get rid of the filibuster, rule up. The s do that, then they can actually states to the union, they can add more Supreme Court justices.

And that, I mean, that's a really controversial, the thought of, um, of why people are really excited about the possibility of having, uh, the divided government. And for the last two years of the, of the Biden administration, patient is still gonna move forward with their efforts of, um, you know, what their agendas are.

But the, this, the house, um, the Republicans, uh, have been highlighting that they're not, the, the purse strings are with the house representatives. And so the idea of funding all of those IRS agents, um, their, their plans are to scuttle the president's plans and not to fund for all the IRS agents that, uh, that they voted on.

So there's lots. Um, lots of, uh, really interesting issues down the pike, but I, I would say this is probably one of the most important issues to any aspect of real estate, commercial or residential, is what's gonna happen in 

[00:41:22] Andreas Senie: November. Okay. Well, and that's the paradigm shifts of it. All right? So whoever the government provides these funds to help us develop and, and grow our economies, keep them going, so to speak, fight inflation and like, and whoever controls the government makes the money

Not to say it that way, but, 

[00:41:47] Saul Klein: So, and, and with all of that, there's still gonna be probably four and a half to 5 million houses sold next year. Mm-hmm. , right? There's still gonna be a certain, there's still gonna be a lot of business takes away. We look at all that and we know, remember a lot of this stuff gets set in motion way ahead of time.

And so the policies, again, the land use policies, even the White House's, uh, position on real estate is interesting. The, as we, as we kinda look at this movement, I guess I say no matter what happens in November, I think certain land use things are gonna keep moving forward the way they're moving forward.

And we'll still have activity and we'll still have, see the big thing for me to look at now is post pandemic. What's gonna happen post pandemic? What things took place during the pandemic that maybe will be, will stay the same or go back to the way they work? Uh, what about, uh, not having to go to work and, or not having to go to the office or work from home?

How will that affect real estate offices or real estate work or, or properties or property values? And we're not really sure how that'll, so there's lots of uncertainty in the air. November certainly is one, but I think just in general, As we, as we look at this, there's just a lot of question out there, and I'm starting to see some of the statistics kind of interesting about how this post covid thing will play out, and I think everybody should be interested 

[00:43:14] Dan Wagner: in that.

Well, Becca, what are some of the, uh, vacancy rates that you're seeing out there for office and stuff? 

[00:43:21] Darren Hayes: So, I 

[00:43:22] Bekah Carlson: don't track office as well. Most of my clients are in the, uh, are, are often in the retail space, but I am seeing very, very steady progress in filling those shopping centers and in and lowering those vacancy rates.

The owners that I work with have been very, very congenial and very, very kind and understanding of their tenants and that actually spans all product type when owners can, they are working with everybody as working with all of their tenants. Constantly and consistently it's all, and lenders have been smart to kick the can down the road and not call loans and things like that.

We'll see, I do recognize that in the next six months, we're gonna see what that really means. I do have some very smart colleagues who are receivers in down cycles and they are getting more deals, they're getting more product that they're having to work with in their receivership. I've got some meetings set up actually in the next couple months now that the Jewish holidays are, um, are mostly over to make sure that, um, you know, to get some of those conversations really started in what is the next piece of our marketplace gonna look like as it relates to lending and receivership.

[00:44:43] Andreas Senie: Well, and actually that's a great point. So those gro, so those retail strip centers, those grocery anchored assets, Right, They are resilient. They, they survived the pandemic. Matter of fact, they thrived in the pandemic right alongside. Uh, apartment investment, monthly, family housing, public storage, and if the double density rules come in and then we can now build up above those, all of a sudden that's the, my, in my mind, the road to net zero carbon emissions.

Just don't have to drive somewhere. Let's not spend more money building an electric car, then it cost to drive a gasoline powered one. Let's just create communities where people can walk to where they need to be and or take. So I'm looking at 

[00:45:22] Saul Klein: some real interesting, uh, statistics on sale and rental premiums on properties located in walkable areas.

And so there's actually now evidence that would indicate that there are premiums on those properties that are located in that particular type of area. And it's real interesting to see, 

[00:45:43] Bekah Carlson: Oh, absolutely. We're, we see it here. Very, very, uh, I've been looking for an apartment with my daughter. So we've been scouring all of the apartment sites and the walkability factor is huge and, and it's jacking up those prices.

And here's a, a kid who's working at the hospital overnights as a cna, and, and she's looking at, you know, like, the, the bad apartments are 13, 14, $1,500 a month. You wanna get into something decent, You're looking at over two grand. Wow. For, for a little one bedroom, for a little 18 year 

[00:46:20] Saul Klein: old. Well, so, so some generational aspect to this, but this, right, This desire for walkability, for convenience, for cleaner environment, for not having to have two cars or even one car.

All these positive things. And so from an investor's perspective, and we've been. Um, some hedge fund people and they look at buying lots of property in lots of areas and how do they make those kinds of decisions? And, you know, what they're starting to see is that, and loans on those kinds of properties that in some of these higher density areas, there are actually premiums as you see.

And you actually see it practically. You can see it, um, that it's taken place, that happening. And that lends itself back to this idea of continuing to increased density, drive down land cost in, you know, make properties more afford. And we've got big problems in the country. If we can't harness the real estate, which is the major asset to start to solve those problems, we're never gonna be able to solve.

So, 

[00:47:16] Dan Wagner: could you, could you, uh, talk about, I'm interested in hearing what you think. I mean, obviously inflation is a big deal. I, I just was at the Illinois Chamber, uh, luncheon today and they had someone from the Federal Reserve talking about how rates are gonna continue to go up and, um, and they're still trying to get handle on inflation.

In your experience, from an historical standpoint, could you, could you touch base on, tell us what you think about that? 

[00:47:40] Saul Klein: Well, so the, Looking back, typically if you want to curb inflation, you wanna reduce the money supply. And one way to do that is to just increase interest rates and it kind of gets down to the Fed.

And how, how much, uh, courage the Fed has to continue to push interest rates higher because it'll affect jobs, it'll affect right, the economy. And, and eventually if they do that, inflation will come down, we'll suffer through a recession. So this is the way it's always been treated. And, uh, so couple of, we've lived through this before.

There is light at the end of the tunnel there, right? We come back, the economy is resilient. Um, but, and right now, and when I talk to people that kind know a lot about this, what they, and I ask them, you know, what's gonna happen? Cause I question all the time, Should I buy, should I buy real estate now?

Should I wait? Is the market gonna collapse? Or what's gonna happen to the pricing of what's gonna happen? Well, real estate makes sense during periods of inflation, but again, what I'm hearing is it's kind of an excuse. We've never been here before. And so while we can look at the past and we can look at what's taken place, we haven't been here before.

We haven't had this anomaly of low interest rates for this great period of time, 10 years plus. We haven't had this thing called quantitative, uh, ease easing to the extent that we've had it, the attempts to, to tighten back up, to pull that money out by, uh, working with the Fed's balance sheet. That's not really work.

So the, some of these things, and Becca, you make an interesting point. It's interesting to hear that you know that the people you know that are, are the people that work in receivership, that they're preparing because people I talk to are also preparing for things that we just don't see are just not visible at this point in time.

So I think that, um, like anything, inflation will, will be able to control it. How long it takes to do that will depend upon the courage of the Federal Reserve. We're already in a recession, probably. Uh, and if not, people don't believe it, they will believe it in a couple of months and. There's always light at the end of the tunnel.

We've always figured out ways to come out of this, you know, in the past. But then there's this big thing hanging over us where there's what I just read the other date, 31. What is deficits like 30? The national 

[00:49:48] Dan Wagner: deficit. Absolutely. Trillion. Yeah. It's wild. That's insane. 

[00:49:54] CRE Tech NY: Yik. 

[00:49:55] Dan Wagner: And that doesn't include all of the, it doesn't include, you know, the, the mandated things that, that exist that are going, they're going bankrupt, you know, social security and all that.

It's like, oh my gosh. 

[00:50:06] Saul Klein: Well, that's the other thing is who pay, who pays the most interest? The United States government's the biggest borrower. So when interest rates go up, that affects the government. The interest has to be paid, so that's non-discretionary, which reduces the discretionary portion. And so it's kinda like leads itself into a big miss.

Right? But 

[00:50:24] Dan Wagner: without the stimulus money, I mean, obviously we need to do it for Covid, but at some point in time, um, we, uh, now we gotta pay the piper. Right? I mean, it's, this is, this is the difficult aspect. Yeah, I think 

[00:50:37] Andreas Senie: Go there. 

[00:50:37] Darren Hayes: No, no. I was just gonna say, I've been reading a lot about what's going on in, in China and the UK and how it's also affecting the global economy.

And with these latest, uh, tax cuts on the table from, uh, Prime Minister Liz Trust, it's gonna propel, according to the Bank of England, you know, interest rates to, or sorry, um, inflation to 10, oh sorry, 11 to 15%, uh, in the near future. So these tax cuts are not gonna help, um, you know, the economy over there.

And then, you know, when I'm looking at these, these very slow, um, rates of, of growth in China, and I was just looking at also the real estate market and that's in very bad shape and it's, I think, the second largest economy in the world. It's gonna have a very negative impact globally and on us. And also, you know, I can't believe that the Euro is.

You know, worth 98 cents to the dollar and that's dropped dramatically. Um, you know, the UK pound dropped to a dollar a three. I think it's back up to around about one 15, but it wasn't that long ago when it was, you know, pretty much in the dollar, a dollar 70 for, for a pound. So that's gonna really impact the cost of, of imports for us.

[00:51:58] Andreas Senie: Well, there quite, quite a bit of foreign investment is still happening into the us. I mean, confidence in the US overall is there, and that's the good news. And then while an economic slowdown would be unwelcome, an in, uh, decrease in inflation is very welcome. And as all you just pointed out, those are the, the levers to get back and forth to keep us where we need to be.

I, Darren, to your. You know? Yeah. Globally there's a huge concern. There's a cascading effect both in labor and in talent, and in, uh, spot coming to, coming to and from because everyone is doing is shifting. Guys, we got a bit behind on the hour here. Let's, uh, as it, as we always do in part three, let's go around.

What's the one thing you want to point our listeners to that can help them with their business from where you sit for the next 30 days? We've going into q4, as Saul just pointed out, it's a new world in the sense it's not a new world. There's a light at the end of the tunnel. What does that really mean?

Saw your to my right on my screen. I think I'm all on the same order as you guys. I never really know like Zoom, . Go ahead. What's the one thing? Yeah. 

[00:53:09] Saul Klein: Uh, the data advocate dot. Z data advocate.com. We try to write about these things as they come up. What we do is we have like five sources. Brookings Institute, American Enterprise Institute, the Urban Institute, and, and a couple of others actually.

And we curate, we read everything we can every day, and we bring this, the information that we think is, there's just too much the stuff that we think is valuable and we publish it on the data advocate. So if you're kind of interested in what we think are, think the information we think is important for the day, you can, uh, follow us on the data advocate.

So the 

[00:53:43] Andreas Senie: cl cliff notes on, on the paradigm shifts. Cliff, 

[00:53:47] Saul Klein: we like to Kip remember the Kiplinger newsletter? We used to get the Kiplinger Newsletter. It was four pages. It was like two lines on everything. They charged a subscription. You could read that newsletter once a week and you had everything you needed to be able to go out and address the world and investing in real estate.

Uh, so that's kind of the idea. I guess Kiplinger might not be around anymore, but it was a great newsletter. 

[00:54:09] Andreas Senie: What's the one thing, uh, you you'd like to tell our, our audience 

[00:54:14] CRE Tech NY: focus 

[00:54:15] Bekah Carlson: on again? Well, actually I had a very inspirational conversation yesterday with a gentleman who's retiring, who had started an organization 30 years ago that is now known as Rare Connection, which is the restaurant and real estate broker network.

It's, it's a national and international network. When he founded it, he founded it himself and brought in another broker, and then they, they added many, many more, but he's, he called it an international association from day one, and it just reminded me to make no small plans. I mean, how, how inspiring is that?

From, from day one, he knew that he was going to wanna connect people all over the world to do restaurant deals. and I continue to be inspired that sometimes I think too small, sometimes I'm so focused in being granular and looking, you know, being in the weeds and what is my marketing plan for next quarter, and like making those small plans.

It's okay to strive to achieve something great and to plan from the beginning to do something great. So I thought I'd share that just cause it was so inspiring for 

[00:55:16] Andreas Senie: me. I love it. Perfect. Darren, what's the one big takeaway as we, we had here into the q4? 

[00:55:24] Darren Hayes: Um, well, you know, I, I actually, uh, attended a, an interesting presentation from a, a security company today.

And, you know, I, I, I'm pitched ideas from security cybersecurity companies all the time. This company's name is, is hack notice if it's okay to mention them. But I thought they had a really interesting concept because what they do is, um, that you, you set up all your employees, it's very easy to, to, you know, gather that database.

And what they do is they actually send notifications to the employees. Uh, about their information out there on the web and on the dark web that's, that's been sold out there or been leaked and part of data breaches. And the control then, and the power is actually up to the employees to decide how to act on that information.

And with this dashboard, they can actually also enter family members and user names and phone numbers of people close to them, and they'll get alerts if something happens. And when the employee actually does something about it, they actually get, um, different types of rewards and there's different types of quests and, and that kind of thing, which I thought was really neat.

Rather than this whole top down approach to security and, and, you know, management informing you what you're doing wrong with, with cyber security or, or alerting you, it's empowering the employees and I thought maybe we should reconsider that aspect of, of cyber 

[00:56:46] Andreas Senie: security. Coming from a place of value so people pay attention.

Yeah. Presenting value, getting their attention so they listen.

[00:56:56] CRE Tech NY: Community 

[00:56:57] Andreas Senie: about, uh, and Dan, besides getting out to vote, whether you're in a grave or not, what's the one big takeaway? 

[00:57:07] Dan Wagner: That's what my takeaway was. Are you kidding me? Something more important than voting. 

[00:57:15] Andreas Senie: Get out and vote in the second. Get out, Mike. 

[00:57:17] Saul Klein: And, and what 

[00:57:18] Dan Wagner: the big thing is, is you have to look at the local state, you know, in your national level.

You can't just sit back and sit down your couch and like, Oh, I'm not gonna pay attention. I mean, in, in Illinois, we have the possibility of, for the first time, there's actually a possibility that two, um, Republicans could win the Supreme Court races in Illinois. That would be a seismic shift for, uh, the business community, um, if that were to happen.

I mean, it's there, there's so much, and people don't think about judges and the, the local judges that you. You elect, are they gonna be outta jail or are they gonna, you know, what's their positions on that? Have you talking about land use? Are, do people believe in private property rights or do people that you get, you get elected, do they wanna use real estate as their piggy bank?

And so this stuff is real. And the thing that impacts us across the country is at the local state, national level, really research advocate for people who you love. I don't care if it's Democrat, Republican, vote for, you know, whoever the best one is, but make sure that they're related to, to our industry, the private property rights, the people will fight for what's best for our industry.

And that's more important than that. I think this, this is how our democracy works. And I don't mean to be on a soapbox, but November 8th is super important. Everybody should see what impacts your business and you, you know, you gotta take a look and, and make sure you. 

[00:58:43] Andreas Senie: Love it. Get out and vote. Well, the double density, the zoning regulations, it was, it was an overriding theme of the day.

The getting our, the one highlight for me would be, uh, those adaptive reuse projects, uh, center of town, brown fields, you know, conversion mills, different, uh, opportunities. There's, yes, there's a longer horizon to value in many cases, but there's plenty of federal funding to Saul's point many times in shows.

What will the government pay for? They'll pay to remediate these, these sites. And there, there's an opportunity in these sites to create jobs and tobo growth. So in your area, focus on connecting with that director of economic development with, um, your first selectman, the person you voted for, hopefully.

And even if it's the person you didn't vote for, just don't tell them and still ask for their help in, in identifying where you can do more as a real estate professional. With that, I want to thank our listeners for tuning in this month. As always. Also as a reminder, join me and over 2000 industry leaders in New York, October 12th and 13th for CRA Tech, CRE Tech, uh, and new special promo code crack of 2020 n y, 20% off.

I'd love to see you there. Uh, we've got a two minute video clip, uh, to show about the event. Mr. Mendoza, if you're back there.

As, as my , Jonathan Stein always says, Uh, no, I'm sorry I say it. Network is your net worth. But Jonathan Stein is a, is a lifetime relationship builder. Also a one of the Inlands. He's my hero. 

[01:02:14] Dan Wagner: I love 

[01:02:14] Andreas Senie: Jonathan. He's hard to keep up with. I remember chasing him down at ICSC Vegas. CRE Tech New York is one of the biggest, uh, if not the biggest collection of leading real estate companies, real estate technologies and real estate capital.

Uh, great opportunity to come meet me and others first hand. Also, if you haven't done so, please subscribe to our YouTube channel where there's a host of great content, including sector interviews past Jones YouTube channel series collaborative, or visit our website at cracko ai. Share rate, review us, tune in anywhere you get your audio.

I want to give a special thanks to each of our hosts here on the call today for giving their time, their insight, um, and their experience really. Guys, thank you everyone. Thank you. Looking forward to next month and getting out to the polls . Amen. With that, uh, have a great month everyone. Take care, 

[01:03:14] Dan Wagner: everybody.