Roundtable: Technology, Marketing, Brokerage, Government Policy, Capital, Construction & Cyber Security in Real Estate with Andreas Senie


September 02, 2022 Season 4 Episode 9 Roundtable: Technology, Marketing, Brokerage, Government Policy, Capital, Construction & Cyber Security in Real Estate with Andreas Senie
Show Notes Transcript

Join Roundtable Hosts Andreas, Rebekah, Anna Maria, Chris, and Darren as they dive deep into mentorship, building your reputation, re-margining your business to do more with less to bulletproof your business for years to come.

This month's Roundtable Hosts:

Andreas Senie, Host, Founder CRE Collaborative Inc. (, Technology Growth Strategist, CRETech Thought Leader, Certified Commercial Real Estate Trainer & Brokerage Owner EAC Properties

Anna Maria Kowalik, SVP – Director Business Development Inland Green Capital LLC LLC, a capital provider for commercial C-PACE projects and part of The Inland Real Estate Group of Companies, Inc.

Chris Abel, Membership Director Associated Builders and Contractors of Connecticut, Board Member SMPS—Society for Marketing Professional Services CT

Professor Darren Hayes CEO Code Detectives, Professor Pace University, & Top 10 Forensic Cyber Security Specialist nationwide.

Rebekah Carlson, Founder & CEO Carlson Integrated, LLC, Past President NICAR Association, Brokerage Owner

ABOUT: Roundtable: Technology, Marketing, Brokerage, Government Policy, Capital, Construction & Cyber Security in Real Estate: Your all-in-one comprehensive view of what is happening across the real estate industry -- straight from some of the industry's earliest technology adopters and foremost experts in Technology, Marketing, Government Policy, Brokerage, Capital, Construction & Cyber Security in Real Estate.

The show is broken down into three parts:

Part I: Introductions and what's new for each panelist and their business sector
Part II: Sector Focus on the past month's most prominent news and paradigm shifts
Part III: What does all this mean for real estate businesses, and what you can do for the next 30 days Roundtable is live 6 PM EST on the 1st Thursday of each month, across all major social media channels and wherever you get your podcasts.

Don’t forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel where there is a host of additional great content, including Sector Interviews and prior shows.

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[00:00:00] Andreas Senie: Welcome back to this month's round table. Your all in one comprehensive view of what's happening across the real estate industry, straight from some of the industries, earliest technology, adopters, foremost experts in technology, marketing, brokerage, government, policy, finance, construction, and cybersecurity as always.

This is a three part show part, one introductions. What's new in each of our different segments, sectors, business sectors, part two sector focus. What is the shift that's occurring and how can you be positioned to take advantage of it? And then part three, what does that critical need to no. From each part, each of the experts round table host to help you outpace your competition.

I'm Andrea as sunny founder, CRE collaborative brokerage owner and technology growth strategist for both the nonprofit for-profit sectors. And joining me this month is  Rebecca Carlson, founder, and CEO, Carlson integrated brokerage owner and past president of night car as well as Annamaria, koala, SVP director of business development at inland green capital, all things finance and recent recipient of the globe street, women of influence 2022 award in the finance executive section.

Congrats, but I want to hear more on that. And in addition, Chris Abel, our all things, construction membership director at Connecticut associated builders and contractors, Darren Hayes will be joining us the second half while Dan Wagner and salt Klein are often joining the holiday. They'll be with us next month.

All right. Welcome back. Super excited for this month's show this month's segment. This should be fun. I think it's our first show without Saul. So let's see. , let's see how, and that is to say it's our first one together at this round table without Saul. Uh, Anna Maria, tell me more. What is happening in the finance world?

[00:02:08] Anna Maria Kowalik: Well, uh, things are busy and, uh, you know, like you said, with, uh, with that award that I, uh, was recently honored with, um, uh, you know, it, it just goes to prove how much work has been done lately and, uh, you know, because you don't just get those for doing nothing. So, uh, uh, it it's been a busy time. Um, this has been an incredibly busy summer, uh, especially, uh, Uh, a lot of in-person events are beginning to ramp up again.

And, uh, so I've been making presentations and, um, uh, trying to educate, uh, the world on CPAC and, and how it works and, and what it does and why it's beneficial to commercial property owners. And so, uh, my work has been cut out for me and it's been great. 

[00:03:03] Andreas Senie: Well, and you've been awarded for it. So things are going well, clearly, I, I mean, given the shift, we're headed into this economic shift, getting to that bottom liner, that fine tuning your capital stack with CPA is a no brainer and, and super excited to come back to this speaking of capital stacks and construction.

Chris, what's the latest on your side of the fence construction? 

[00:03:26] Chris Able: Yeah, no, there's a lot going on. Um, it's funny. It's funny when you, every once in a while, it seems like it takes forever for us to come back around um, you know, for, for a show. For the FA you know, for the next month, but for some reason, all of a sudden we kind of blinked.

I was like, oh wow, we have another show here. So, um, that means a lot is going on. I've been speaking to a lot of different contractors and kind of getting out there as the weather has, uh, started to cool down a little bit, the past couple of, uh, couple of weeks, I mean, still dealing with obviously the, the long term issues with the, the labor shortages and the materials and all that stuff.

But I've spoken to a lot of, um, a lot of contractors over the past several weeks. And, um, surprisingly finding out that many more than expected or many more than I'm. I think some of 'em are surprising themselves financially you're year over year, they're looking at a better 20, 22 than they did in maybe at 2021.

Um, and I kind of, we could talk about it in a little bit, but as far as how they got there and how they kind of realized those things, um, I've gotten several, you know, several different answers. So everyone seems busy and they're staying busy with smaller projects if they don't have the big ones. And then they're just waiting for the big ones to kind of start up.

So that's 

[00:04:42] Andreas Senie: well, then that sounds great. I, I was gonna point out in here in Shelton everywhere. It seems like construction crews are up and at it they're out there doing things mm-hmm so I did, I was excited to talk to you and, and like you just pointed out, it's funny. I look at my calendar. I went, wow, it's been another month.

Yeah. This is like my monthly, oh my God. It's another month. has passed by this year. Um, but so I'm super excited to talk more about the, the better outlook for 2022 for construction. Cause we need those deliverables. We need those, that supply and Becca, as far as, uh, the marketing positioning of it all, I mean, perception is everything.

How are things on your side of the fence? Well, 

[00:05:22] Bekah Carlson: it's often said the perception is reality, but there is also the factor that reality. Can become perception over time. And the marriage between those two elements is the most important part of having a business and the most important, important part of commercial real estate, property ownership, management, leasing financing.

Because if the story you're telling is that the story of who you actually are, then you're not gonna go very far in our rep. Our reputations precede us in this industry and they stay forever. . So it's been a really neat kind of month for me to analyze. What's been going on with some of my clients. I have a number who are kind of small to medium size owner clients, and it's been exciting to watch their, their leasing really ramp up.

And we've been telling stories about their properties for a long time. And there actually have been getting activity over these summer months and going into the fall from a leasing standpoint, from an investment standpoint, my clients who are looking for properties to buy, it's been pretty quiet. And we're hoping that there'll be an end of the year, little bit of a ramp up, but it.

very possible that there's, you know, just kind of a little bit of a slowdown right 

[00:06:35] Andreas Senie: now, is that an inventory slowdown or is that they're just, they're waiting to see what bigger factors, what other paradigm shift are are 

[00:06:43] Bekah Carlson: happening. I think commercial real estate investors are by far traditionally conservative.

And so there is a wait and see approach. There's no, no, one's holding a, like forcing somebody to spend money. They don't have to, they don't have to go out and deploy the capital. There's got, they've got. 

[00:07:00] Anna Maria Kowalik: They've got, and the capital is still expensive today. Yeah. The interest rates and, and you're not hearing as much about it in the news, but if you're following, uh, the treasury yields and everything else, you're, you're going to note that there's, uh, uh, still, uh, you know, an increasingly, uh, a, a higher rate almost every day.

And so, um, you know, that certainly will influence an impact buying and, and 

[00:07:28] Andreas Senie: selling well, are they higher? I mean, everyone on this call has been in this business in real estate for more than 10 years. Right. Mm-hmm so, but let's go back a little further, 15%, 10%. I mean, capital is more expensive. I agree wholeheartedly that that is, is causing an adjustment, but I, I would imagine that that CPA is busier than.

Because your copy is not increasing. 


[00:07:54] Anna Maria Kowalik: a absolutely because it's, it becomes very competitive. And, you know, I always like to say that it's fairly recession proof, uh, you know, in that regard, but I was commenting more toward, uh, you know, Rebecca's, uh, uh, comment that, uh, it is, um, you know, that it accounts for that pause that people are, are thinking about it.

Yeah. Yes, exactly. 

[00:08:21] Andreas Senie: No. And, and, and that is a, that is a fair statement by all means. I mean, here in the Northeast specifically, we've got brokerage companies laying down in the Northeast nationwide compass Redfin laying off eight to 10% of their workforce. The last two months we've got investors and technology companies shutting their doors.

I re real R E a L I not to be confused with ology, just shut their doors after raising a hundred million. So there is a lot of consolidation in pause. So. And I, I think that's actually spun. We as real estate professionals are, can wait to your point. That goes, we can sit and wait. Um, and while we're sitting here waiting, apparently all the construction guys have finally shown up to work and I'm, I'm only chesting.

Um, I, part of me believes it's actually that, that a lot of these projects and Chris, you may or may not know, at least here, we're waiting on some sort of final piece of financing and this, this bridge, this bigger gap between lenders and owners, investors, and this uncertain future helped people kind of push through what they needed to like, Hey, let me get through what I can.

I need to clear my inventory of X, Y, and Z. Did you see an uptick, uh, in that. Press. Yeah. 

[00:09:38] Chris Able: Uh, absolutely. The other thing I'm noticing is, you know, it was taking a while for, you know, with a lot of the material material costs to the, um, shortage, I should should say. Um, there was a lot of, you know, small pieces of red tape that were kind of in the way for these jobs to start.

And then when the materials started coming in, all of a sudden, some of those pieces needed to, they needed to kind of hustle to get those, those squared away. And it, you know, I think the pressure now is having all the, you know, making sure the municipalities and all those type of entities and the banks have all their, you know, kind of ducks in a row.

So when the materials come in and the workers can get out there, they can actually start the job and get the job done, cuz they can't. You know, can't finish a job unless they get out there and actually, you know, start it. And it ends up being a time is of the essence scenario, even down to the, to, to the day or to the week.

Because I mean, I just, I just, uh, spoke to a contractor earlier today who, you know, they they're on the job. There's several subcontractors on the job of the same, you know, the same, uh, field and the guys and the women are out there talking and they're chatting and they're chatting. And then next thing you know, um, you know, one of them's leaving one place to go to the other and it's happening all all the time.

So all of a sudden different crews get disrupted a little bit where they may lose, you know, they may lose two electricians or two plumbers, you know, right. From a job site right over to another job site. So there's a lot of, um, a lot of odd factors in regards to, Hey, what's the wage look like? What are the benefits look like?

What's, what's it look like on the other side of, um, You know, on, on, you know, is the grass greener over there? Uh, so to speak. So it's, and the people who are waiting on these jobs don't necessarily want to hear, well, two of, two of my electricians didn't show my recruiting. Yeah. They they're. They work for this company now.

Well, why did, first of all, why did they leave? Why, you know, so an owner's not necessarily a company. Owner's not necessarily gonna tell somebody that, so now they're just kind of going, well, how come there's only, you know, we've had six, seven people on the job, how come I'm only seeing three every single day.

You know, it's similar to that. Um, residential contracting, when, you know, a part gets done, the demo gets done. And then all of a sudden you're seeing they're going, what happened to my contractor? How come they. You know, showing up in, you mean it's not 

[00:12:04] Andreas Senie: like it is on HGTV. I think it's, but they do it in three days and it's one after the other, the finance one after another.

[00:12:11] Chris Able: And they just put a, put a big cardboard thing in front of it and just, uh, 

[00:12:15] Andreas Senie: yeah. And just do the sale by owner and they still make money. Yeah, absolutely. No. The ones with brokers make money. you go? Absolutely. That's that's all marketing spin, but we were not gonna go there too far. yeah. But so, so we've got these, these, all this perception and Becca, you hit on it, but reputation, right?

You've you've got these developers, these contractors, the industry closing up their belt, right. We we're, we're consolidating, we're trimming down. We're focusing on, on our needs. How do we get through the perception of it all? Is it I'm doing a 200 deals period, and I'm just gonna go out there and promote as much as I can or, or are people getting silent and focusing on virtual education events as an example, and Anna Maria, we were talking about that briefly.

Uh, okay. You mentioned going back in. yes. Versus education and, and you're out there on the street. What. What are people saying when you're talking? Well, 

[00:13:09] Anna Maria Kowalik: you know, basically I've just noticed that, uh, in person events are way up, uh, they are back and, um, but I've been hearing from, uh, people across, uh, sectors that some states.

Less so than others. Uh, and, um, uh, but here in Illinois, we're going strong. Uh, I'm, I'm probably attending two or three, uh, a day, uh, at some point. And, uh, in fact after this, uh, I had an event earlier this afternoon and after this podcast, I'm on my way to another event this evening, uh, all networking with construction and engineering people.

And, um, but I, I do think that since the, uh, COVID era and, uh, you know, and, uh, all of the, uh, technology and resources available via webcast and web learning and, uh, webinars, people doing. I think they're here to stay, um, because there's always gonna be some component particularly of education that people aren't going to want to access when they have time.

Uh, for example, there was a podcast I wanted to listen to yesterday and I didn't have the time when it was, uh, being broadcast live. And so, uh, you know, I've kind of, uh, uh, put a little, uh, tickler on it and I'm gonna go back to it when I have, uh, a little bit of time in the car or, uh, you know, doing something mindless at home, like washing dishes or something, you know, where I can just listen to it.

So. I, I, I think the technology is here to stay. It, it's very important and it's become an integral part of just all of that, which we do. Uh, but I am very glad personally to see in person events coming back because there's nothing, uh, in the real estate industry, like going out and, uh, talking face to face and shaking hands.

Uh, that's what it's 

[00:15:16] Andreas Senie: all about. It's um, Bob McComb is a trainer out of California and he says it, I love the way he says it. Real estate is a contact sport, right? Can never replace getting in there and getting it done in construction. And the like, that's how we, that's how we grow our businesses. But so what you're highlighting is you have to go back to this event, right?

You didn't have time. So are you getting impact is your day impacted now with an extra hour that you have to spend on these sessions that you otherwise weren't there? Or is it replacing something else? 

[00:15:48] Anna Maria Kowalik: You know, no, not replacing. It's just, you know, you, you kind of, I, I always go back to what, what everybody says, find the busiest person and they know how to make time.

And that's what I do. I make time, you know, remember at one time I was a, a single mom of four kids and working full time and, and, uh, still today, you know, taking care of elderly parents and, uh, you know, and, and still having family obligations, I have four kids in, uh, four different states. And, and so, you know, I'm with grandchildren in different places, you know, I want that family time, but I, I have to juggle and balance and, uh, and.

Who says, you know, that, uh, there is no real work life balance out there and there isn't, uh, sometimes one thing takes priority and then the other thing, uh, you know, takes priority next month, uh, you know, whatever, but you, you have to be flexible and, and that's, uh, an important, uh, I think concept in this industry, particularly being flexible, being able to be fluid and, and you.

Uh, go with the flow. That's that's what gets it done? Uh, otherwise we'd get nothing done. 

[00:17:13] Andreas Senie: ask a busy person to do something. It gets done. There you go. That's 

[00:17:16] Bekah Carlson: right. That is what they say. 

[00:17:18] Chris Able: just to, uh, just to piggyback off what, uh, what you're saying, Anna Marie, there's also, there's what, I'm one something I'm learning right now.

And I think all of us fall in the same boat is if you were working hard over the past couple of years, which I know all of us were, if you were working hard over the past couple years and you continue to work and you continue to work and continue to work and just kind of push and persevered. There's, I'm finding that my work now that the, the in person stuff is coming back and coming back full force.

It's just, it's becoming a little bit easier for me to do the type of work I want to do and handle the business that I want to handle. And part of it is since we've been putting that, that much work in while things have been, so ultimately. Difficult over the past couple of years is just quite frankly, you know, kind of rewarding ourselves a little bit, whether that is figuring out, okay, what events am I really going to go to?

Which ones are gonna benefit from me being in the room, which ones am I gonna benefit from? But which ones are, you know, are, are going to benefit from me, you know, being in that room and dealing with different people. And who's gonna appreciate, you know, my, not so much my presence, but who's gonna appreciate the fact that, you know, they know we're busy, but we're in that space.

And then the other thing was, um, you know, as far as rewarding ourselves is kind of going back to basics like I'm, uh, later on this month, I'm jumping in a, uh, productivity seminar, like a three day seminar. And I'm like, you know what? I can run around like a chicken with my head cut off. Now that these in-person or event are here and these calls are here.

Yeah. Or I can take two and a half to three days and go to something that my whole goal of it is to breathe for three days. Two and a half days, bring it all in, get back to basics and also take little tidbits of information that are going to help me deal with, like, we can't say the new normal anymore.

You can only say the new normal for so long until it's normal. so I wanna take some tidbits of information that bring me right up to where I need to be in, in this, in this, in this setting now, um, rather than, you know, and I'm probably gonna miss two or three events over those three days, and that's just, I'm like, you know what?

I need to make the investment in myself and kind of reward, reward myself by in it. There's gonna be networking there too, but reward myself by going back to professional development and, uh, whether that's online in an online setting or whether that's, you know, an in person setting. 

[00:19:52] Andreas Senie: So, so you're, you're re margining your business, not just from an expense standpoint, but your time.

What is my time worth? Where can I, where can I spend that time and, and get the most back. Um, it looks like we've got a comment coming in here. Contractors are starting and it's for you, Chris contractors, starting many jobs, pull workers off jobs, at least show up on time, show up each and every time. Um, you know, so we're not the only one seeing it.

And I'm sure this is, we talk a lot about smaller jobs and larger jobs government or not. This happens whether you're a one man shop or you've got a hundred people there. It's just a, it's a workforce issue. 

[00:20:30] Chris Able: But back to, somebody's gonna see you. Someone's gonna see you on the job. Someone who can I have question say, something's going to see you, 

[00:20:37] Bekah Carlson: Chris.

I have a question on this and I don't know if you're seeing this, but I suddenly I've had some conversations with a couple of my investor owners lately. And they're talking about purposefully identifying and building cultivating relationships specifically with construction companies. Yeah. Cuz they want like.

To have something so sticky in a partnership arena that the construction that they feel like they can really count on those construction companies and want to pursue business with those construction companies, as opposed to having, you know, just, just knowing somebody they're like, well, maybe if we structured as a JV, like, well, get these projects done.

Yeah. So I don't know. Do you see that in your market too? 

[00:21:21] Chris Able: Yeah, absolutely. So the thing is this, if you can, if you can mark earmark yourself as, um, being the best in the business, you know, really being, being a, a steady company that is going to be there and going to get the job done, there's gonna be more of those people that are gonna wanna build their relationships, you know, with you and your, and you're gonna be able to kind of build out the culture from there and then the word's gonna get around that people wanna, you know, work for you.

And I'm, you know, I'm seeing a lot of what you're saying as far as building that relationship, but in building that relationship, some of the best contractors that I've seen. Have a real sense of making sure that their people in the field have a real thorough understanding of what those workers mean to the community, to the city and most importantly to their company.

So they're not just out there just doing these type of things and just note real first offhand example of this was, you know, a couple weeks ago I was up in, in New Hampshire. I was with my, with my family on vacation and the resort that we were staying in right next to it, they are expanding and they were, they had a couple cranes and they were doing a bunch of steel erection.

And I loved it because it gave me, it was right by the pool and it gave me something to kind of watch. I was like, okay, can't get away from work. anyway, I sell dance email. So, but we were waiting on a restaurant. We were waiting on a restaurant and. We were waiting on a restaurant and it was just my daughter and I in the morning, it was probably seven o'clock in the morning.

And uh, they said, well, we need 15 minutes. Can you come back in 15 minutes? Yeah, no problem. So my first thought was, it's not much else to do. Let's go outside and let's watch the construction going on for a few minutes. My daughter's seven. And she says, uh, so we're out there. And at first she was kind of bored, but then I said, Hey, I said, you see what they're doing?

They're watch that. They're gonna lift it, whatever they're gonna lift the steel. And then, and uh, she said, well, what are they doing? And I said, well, they're building. And she goes, yeah, but what are they building? I said, they're expanding this building. You see right there, it's coming off of this building.

And uh, I read something that's gonna be done next year in the elevator. It said it was gonna be done next year. And she goes, oh, and she goes, are they gonna have a pool? I said, well, there's a pool over here. So they might have a pool. Is there a pool I could swim in? Next time we come over here, that's gonna be here.

And I said, I don't know. And she says, well, what is gonna be here? I said, it's gonna be more rooms. I. Well, next time we come, can we stay there? And it, it clicked to me. That's where that thought came from. It clicked to me where I'm like, do those people that are doing that work, you know, football field away from us on the other side of that fence, understand the impact that they're making by doing this, where you have a young girl now, wondering what are you doing?

Can I stay there? What's gonna be there. What's my experience gonna be now, mind you she's seven. She's not totally encompassing all of that, but you, I was just thinking I'm like, does is a guy up there. That's making sure that those beams are locking in. Does he have any idea what he he's doing? What that means to this, you know, kind of young mind, let alone the community, the, the other entities, the company, all that sort of stuff.

So, um, I went off a little bit on that, but basically that's the whole thing, that relationship and that stickiness of like, listen, we trust. We trust you for a reason, you've built a good reputation with us. You've built a good reputation in the industry. Now it's that contractor stop to trickle it down to the people in the field and say, Hey, listen, do you, do you truly understand the impact you're making?

You know, I mean, when I Sue Harbor floors, I still go buy houses and I, and I sit there and go, I drive by houses, don't buy houses, drive by houses and I can't help, but to point out, oh, I remember doing that. I remember doing this. Um, so I think 

[00:25:18] Andreas Senie: it's important that people you're pointing out two things.

Well, two things there. Right? So, um, what do you do? What, what, what did I do today? Am I translating that down to my, to the culture at Inlander wherever you are, like, what am I doing today? Uh, well, secretary at NASA, what? 1980, I'm putting someone on the. Yeah. Or the janitor, right? Like, no, I'm not sweeping up.

I'm, I'm a part of something. And I, I think that's important, but what Becca, you pointed out, um, this kind of priority placement, at least that's what it sounded like to me priority attendance at my jobs. And yeah, we just did the secretary interview with SA and I'm going, Hmm. Well, maybe I can charge more for priority placement if I'm that contractor , like, I'm gonna have a different tier pricing and you know, you get I'll show up.

You're the critical and, and that's just the finance side of it. Wait a minute. Maybe that's the next ship for the construction industry. You're double, triple booked. I mean, it, it would re havoc gun reputation, I imagine. But if you're, if you're not gonna show up anyways, maybe that's maybe that's that's so in attack.

[00:26:22] Chris Able: Well, you do see it in some of the residential. So, you know, small residential contractors, um, not the, not the people I deal with on a daily basis, but people I do talk to where, you know, talking to a floor guy the other day and, you know, throwing out. , you know, jobs that, that nobody wanted to do and him, you know, throwing out some huge dollar amounts numbers.

Yeah. Yeah. And, and they, and they give it to him. And then all of a sudden he does, he, it's almost, it's almost in reverse where all of a sudden it's like, Hey, that's it. You're paying me the most. Now I'm going out here. Um, but it'd be nice. It'd be nice if there was an even, even, uh, spot there where, you know, it's not necessarily, you have to put that tier pricing up there, but it's more, Hey, listen, if you do, if you are gonna be my priority person and you are gonna be there, then guess what it's going to, you know, really build your business out where you're not gonna be, you know, hoping to the next time this happens.

You're not gonna be trying to clamor to keep your business open. You're gonna be good because I'm gonna take care of you. For 

[00:27:26] Anna Maria Kowalik: the, this is pretty selective. Uh, but you've got, you know, certain parts of the industry, uh, like retail, uh, you know, there aren't enough cashiers. Uh, you have to look for some who works here, uh, who can I talk to or who can I pay?

Uh, you know, it, it really becomes pretty problematic in certain, uh, sectors where, uh, you know, uh, the workforce has dwindled quite a bit and, uh, you know, other kinds of service organizations and banks, and, you know, and I know a lot of people are doing online banking and things, you know, but I'm trying to help my elderly parents through a, a certain, uh, a stage right now.

And. I can't get bank personnel to, to work with. Um, it it's, it really is, uh, just a, a different environment out there, uh, with the workforce. Absolutely. And, and it is important. One of the things that you said, Chris and I, I think, uh, Andreas said, had, had mentioned it to, but you know, it's important for people who are doing the.

To know what they're doing and why they're doing it and, and why, how they do it is very important to what they do. So, so there are all these questions that they have to ask themselves and that, uh, have to be answered by, uh, whom they're working for, uh, you know, in order to really make it, uh, uh, a great experience, not only for themselves and their employer, but for like you said, the community and, uh, you know, and others around 

[00:29:15] Andreas Senie: well, and, and if, if we're focused on stickiness and priority relationships, which doesn't, we don't know real estate is, is relationship business.

I'm gonna go to my top five first until they shift, but we, you know, if, how do you stand out from the competition while reducing your price while being everywhere? I mean, maybe that's a marketing question. 

[00:29:38] Bekah Carlson: Well, actually, I can't do that

[00:29:42] Andreas Senie: well, but you can market it as such, right? 

[00:29:44] Bekah Carlson: Well, no, Don. Right? What is it like?

You can't have two outta three, but you can't have all three, right? 

[00:29:48] Andreas Senie: Fast, easy, and, uh, fast, good or cheap in construction to jump over. Um, so that's but, but Anna Maria, you, you actually brought up a good point there in the tellers disappearing and, and it's a good parallel, even the gas station. Now, I don't know if you guys are seeing this, but I, they have a, um, an automated teller go in and buy everything in the store.

So you don't have to deal with a person you're gonna swipe and scan and bang as more and more of these, these positions disappear. How do you stand out from that competition? How do you instill urgency and keep that. So, well, and I think 

[00:30:25] Anna Maria Kowalik: what Chris said about trust is so important. And so you have to be the best you can be, uh, to be able to instill trust.

And, uh, you know, it, it it's as simple as that. 

[00:30:43] Andreas Senie: We're, if we're new to the business, don't bother, it's just the, the it well, but how do you build it from ground up now? I mean, you have, you have a lot of new, newer faces in the business doing. Yeah. Especially with C pace, I imagine. And we have a big generation.

Oh, how are they? There's no getting ahead of the relationship business. So how do you get, how do you stand out? It's just an open question. Uh, well, what you attend the round 

[00:31:12] Anna Maria Kowalik: tasting. So I can only speak from what we do here at inland green capital. And what we do is we are out there, we are working our relationships.

We're making sure that the visibility is there and that, um, we, uh, we are offering a solid product. Um, we don't, for example, uh, Issue term sheets for the sake of issuing term sheets. Um, a lot of, uh, people out there, uh, are doing that, oh, I'll get out 10 term sheets this week and maybe I'll get one back.

And, you know, and, and that makes my week, uh, we actually look at every deal individually and we do our due diligence. And so, um, I, I, I think you can't skip the work. You have to do the work and, but, well, let's face it. Everybody's looking for an easy way out these days, you know, and, and if you're not doing the work it's, it's not going to, you know, and there's, there are a lot of ways to do the work.

You have to set a foundation, you have to build on that foundation. And, and so it, this is not a thing that a new person can't do. They just have to do it. Twice as well. 

[00:32:35] Andreas Senie: well, and they, if they're building it now, they, that visibility, you know, it shows up, you know, before you know it it's another month and we're back here and there's more visibility or you're, you're out on the space you're out in, in your sector.

And if you're, if you are playing by contact rules, you're out there meeting landlords and meeting your peers at these networking events, 

[00:32:55] Chris Able: I would say to touch on that. It is very, very, and this goes right along with it. It's very, very difficult. If not damn near impossible at this point to, to, to fake it till you make it in this type of atmosphere, because it's just you.

And at Reese point, you have to do the work and you have to build the trust. I've I've said more times than I'd like to admit over the past seven, eight months, probably year or so that, Hey, I gotta get to that. I haven't forgot. I'm gonna get to it. It's just, you know, instead of just kind of either ignoring things or just making believe you're doing something that you're not doing.

Um, on the other side of that, I personally feel like networking wise. If you're, if you're, if you're true network again, like all of us on, on, on this cast, um, there's never been a, a, an, an easier, easier time to network. You know, if you, if you could find yourself, if you're younger, you can, you know, work on, you could, you can try to connect to someone who's a potential mentor through social media, which obviously when I say it like that, it makes me sound like I'm a thousand years old and social media's brand, brand new

But now LinkedIn is like, you know, if you, if you hit the right buttons and everything's already a no, and you just keep going and you get yourself a yes, next thing you know, you can put yourself in a situation where you can just be around. Some of those people who are the busiest or close to the busiest in, in the room and just, you know, kind of feed off that positive energy and kind of see what they're doing.

Um, cuz if you're matching energy with people, people are usually going to, they're usually a little more willing to open up their, their bag of tricks a little bit and maybe give you something that, you know, it's not going to put you in a space where you're competing, you know, you know, here's my trick.

Don't use it on me type of thing, but just, Hey, this is what works. This is what works. It's worked over and over and over again, if they're smart enough to, to jump on it, then they're gonna use those things. So they don't have to try to fake it. 

[00:35:04] Andreas Senie: Well that's mindset and action, uh, right. You you've gotta be, have the right mindset and take these actions and yep.

And I love the back to basics. We talk about it a lot on the show. We're always rewriting, but always going back to basics network is your net worth? As far as, uh, inland, not writing proposals, they don't intend to com to fulfill. How could you waste time writing proposals? You intend to, you don't intend to fulfill.

That seems counterintuitive, but I, I agree people do it. They submit offers in real estate. They, they tell, they call brokers for valuations. They don't need, you know, there there's a lot of that. So cutting through that noise, doing more with less, and then overcoming, really not overcoming as this shift continues.

It's been very easy. The last two years to spy sell, be involved in real estate. I think that's a fair statement across all fronts. Yeah. It, in the day to day, this is what we're doing. Business is flowing, I think. And I think I got licensed in oh seven. I've been through this before. Now. We have to get serious about finding the right deals and pursuing those deals.

And it sounds like the contractors are well on their way. Finding the right deals. Marketing is hopefully pushing me more and more deals as usual and CPAC is out there filling this gap. but is that, is that, and we've already blown through part two guys. We're killing it. Is that what you guys are seeing CCA?

You've got a question. I I'm sorry. 

[00:36:30] Bekah Carlson: I have okay. I got to be on a panel for Nik car a couple of weeks ago, and it was at NAS bar, which is so weirdly overlay board over the top. The Northern most 14 counties of Northern Illinois and NAS bar is the north shore Barrington association of realtors. And it's a fantastic organization with thousands of members.

And they did a panel talking to people who are involved in commercial to talk to some residential brokers about what, what it was like to be involved in commercial. And I had on this panel with me, a couple of practitioners and leaders in our market. Who've been in business, you know, for 50 years, 55, 0, they've been doing this real estate thing in Chicago, completely knowledgeable.

One of them was my mentor, Marty, nor, and I. Was really excited. Marty actually just started a whole mentoring program over the past couple years. He's just been passionate about it. He's 77. So his heart is to give back and to teach. So we were talking a lot about mentoring and I loved it that Chris mentioned it because it is a chance.

This is such a great opportunity to find a mentor and be a mentor. I was asked to participate as a mentor in an organization here in Chicago, and I got to work with a awesome young marketing lady at CBR E last year. I've got a new mentee that I get to work with this year. I'm very excited. It's unbelievably rewarding.

And I didn't necessarily think I was, um, so smart or established or knowledgeable. I've just been around for a long time. And because of that there, I, I always forget that that means that I do have a degree of expertise in the industry. And I know so many wonderful people that I can introduce a young person to.

It's really exciting Andreas on this panel. I stole your quote. I took that your network is your net 

[00:38:26] Andreas Senie: worth network is net worth 

[00:38:28] Bekah Carlson: yes. Network equals net worth. Okay. So I moved it and I did go back and I did attribute it to you later on. And so I think they did tape the panel. So I just want you to know if you ever watch this random learning commercial real estate panel in Illinois with the, with the NY car association.

That when you hear me say it, I do attribute it to a little bit later. 

[00:38:51] Andreas Senie: I appreciate that. There's, uh, there's nothing new in real estate, right? So although, and, and it, I forgot where I first heard it. Maybe I made it up. No, I attributed to X, Y, Z. I don't know who they are right now, but somewhere somehow. It, the mentorship as you pointed out and, and we've all, we've all mentored here and Maria, you're out there educating like full force panels, but are you, does inland mentor other, are, are you in a mentor?

[00:39:19] Anna Maria Kowalik: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And so, you know, we have, uh, various, so we have an internal organization, uh, that's women, uh, helping women. Uh, and, and so that's just one example, but there are other outside organizations as well in the commercial, uh, real estate industry. And, and, uh, I, I noticed, you know, uh, Becca was chomping at the bit to say something about mentoring.

And I was gonna say at the same time, I know that both Becca and I are in some of these same organizations and have provided mentorship. Um, and, uh, you know, I, I did it especially. Even more so on a regular basis during the, the COVID, you know, stay at home era because uh, people needed connection. And, uh, and, and they didn't know what they were doing at home.

Uh, and, uh, it, it was almost like the home alone kind of thing. Well, what do I do next? You know? And, um, uh, it, so, yes, it's a very important part. I think, especially for women, uh, especially, you know, uh, in the DEI, uh, uh, sector, uh, where, you know, we, we tend to help each other more and, um, and often so 

[00:40:44] Andreas Senie: the, um, and, and, uh, crew commercial real estate women, I mean, you guys, I think they're both members actually, uh, there's so much going on.

There's so many ways to get help. I am curious, Becca, you said you were on a re commercial panel. I'm sorry, you were on a, you were in a mixed room with residential and commercial. And I said it that way for a reason not to be rude. 

[00:41:04] Bekah Carlson: So REM commercial is actually considered almost a derogatory term in I 

[00:41:08] Andreas Senie: know, which is why 

[00:41:09] Bekah Carlson: I dual practice dual practice is the appropriate term to use.

And the idea, the concept is that here we are this commercial overlay board with all of this commercial knowledge, and there are residential brokers who aren't adept at commercial real estate deals. They wanna understand them. They wanna know where the pitfalls are and what kind of deals they should give to someone who is a commercial real estate broker, but they don't know any real estate bro, commercial real estate brokers, cuz commercial real estate brokers wanna talk to residential brokers.


[00:41:40] Andreas Senie: therein lies the crux of the argument. So, um, then we have a panel then we have a panel. And, and I say that as a commercial broker, um, and my wife, you know, does residential. She does retail and, and in partnership with the residential brokerage, we're seeing more and more of this hybrid model, but. I know at least here in the Northeast, you cannot take, you have to disclose if you haven't done a certain type of deal, minimally to the client.

So are you seeing this shift or more people signing up to be commercial with what's happening in the economy with this? Hey, I can't go. It's no longer gonna be easy to do residential. Let me go become a master in commercial one segment or another, or was that not the topic? It was just everybody together and had to mentor 

[00:42:24] Bekah Carlson: on this.

So we talked a lot about whether people want to refer business partner in business. Be mentored in business because there's all sorts of different structures. And as with anything, it's all negotiable, it's all part of a conversation, but there should be some intentionality behind it. So if you're, you know, if for, in that case, like if a residential broker just has a commercial deal that falls into their lap, the best practices is not just to, oh, do it.

That is not best practices, best prac. And, and it actually violates the realtor court of ethics and things like that. So there's all sorts of pieces to it and nuances. 

[00:43:02] Andreas Senie: So talk to your mentor and if you don't have a mentor, find a mentor, I'm 

[00:43:05] Bekah Carlson: a mentor. And I think that that was the point of it is that we all have networks.

You've been in the industry for a really long time and we like people and we wanna help. And I think when we talk about all the connection pieces like Chris, that's what builds trust. Anna Maria. That's what makes you for a good mentor, right? It all comes together. And, and actually, since we're talking about trust, the most trusted cybersecurity expert ever is on this call.

So I, I'm gonna stop talking about REM real estate and go to Darren. 

[00:43:37] Andreas Senie: Darren. Welcome. Glad you're coming. Oh, thank, 

[00:43:40] Darren Hayes: thank you. Good to see 

[00:43:41] Andreas Senie: everyone. How, uh, you're just back from the UK. If I understand correctly, and it's been a busy month at cybersecurity, how are things? So it's good 

[00:43:51] Darren Hayes: to be back and good to see everybody.

[00:43:56] Andreas Senie: Uh, this month was been rife with news, major attacks, apple, everything. What, um, speaking of trust, I mean, what is the biggest thing on your mind? We're, we're running through the hour here. Uh, what's the biggest shift or the biggest thing we're paying attention to on the cybersecurity side? I know you've just arrived back in the us.

So on this side of the pond, 

[00:44:17] Darren Hayes: um, Well, I know I keep heart rent somewhere is still the biggest threat to give you some perspective where 20 billion billion, 37% of businesses, uh, 32% of people pay their only, only get their data back of companies were able to using a backup. 

[00:44:49] Andreas Senie: So 30, 30, 2% of people that pay get their data back.

So a third. So, 

[00:44:56] Darren Hayes: um, yeah, so actually pay the ran 5% of those people actually. And so there's a lot of ransom where you don't there's no trust 

[00:45:11] Andreas Senie: pay the ransom yes, no trust and no reputation to worry about. They don't have to commit. They don't have to show. 

[00:45:19] Darren Hayes: Exactly exactly. Um, in, in case turns a good morning, America, about cybersecurity threats.

You can pick, choose kids and where they're going to school and these kinds of, because you know, one of the 

[00:45:43] Andreas Senie: Darren, I'm sorry, your audio is chopping in, uh, quite badly, um, giving, take it to buffer. Can you switch your headset? And for me, or keep going now could be a buffering thing or maybe reconnecting while you do that.

Reagan's gonna take you, bring you in and out just to make sure it's working as you reconnect. Okay. Um, it was, it was so less than 5% of the people that pay the ransom, get their money, or get their files back. Terrible. So trust is a big issue there as I understand it, Darren, uh, let's try you now. There we go.

Much better

for the moment. 

[00:46:31] Darren Hayes: Good. Okay. So I may, maybe I'll speak, uh, so 32% the ransom and ransom only six actually get the data back. 

[00:46:50] Andreas Senie: So six it's only 6% of people that pay, get their data back. So don't pay the ransom call the FBI or call, call Derek. Don't 

[00:46:58] Chris Able: don't, 

[00:46:59] Andreas Senie: it's really about the highlights to everyone as, as we worked through the audio issues.

Yes. Um, but I, I, and I got away from me. So we, we were talking Darren, before you Jo, before you joined. Thank you for joining. We were talking about standing out from the competition, building that reputation possibly through mentorship and really getting remarketing, both your business from a, a expense perspective, put your time, your time is your most valuable asset.

And Becca borrowed a quote for me and used it without attributing it to me, but that's what you missed. So while we're getting caught up there, the audio, um, that urgency, right? Um, and, and really what I'm hearing is in all things, how to Bulletproof your, your transaction, your business, your cyber security as we grow.

So as we move into this next phase of the, the year we're getting back to, to in person events, what is, and we're, we're 10 minutes to the top of the. What is the, what is the biggest thing from each sector that people should start to focus on to Bulletproof their business? As we shift into this economic downturn in Annamaria, I know it's CPAC first and foremost, to get that capital stack always but beyond that, is, would you say, is it fair to say that that, I mean, you've done property management, you've done a lot in your time at inland and overall should real estate practitioners be focused on, on their capital stacks, on making changes now consolidating now ahead of this term, cuz you, you were in the business in 2007, you 

[00:48:39] Anna Maria Kowalik: know, it, it really all depends.

Um, if you've been running lean and clean, um, I like, you know, there's probably not too much you need to do. Um, it, it all depends on, um, you know, where you started from and. Uh, so I, I really don't have too much of a comment there. Uh, it, it can differ from, uh, one company to another. It can, uh, uh, differ from one person and how they approach things to another.

Because remember in the real estate industry, there are a lot of individual businesses. Uh, E even though you, you may hang your license with someone, you are your own business, uh, kind of thing. And so, um, you know, I think it's a different answer for everyone. And are we really getting ahead of anything right now?

I, I think things have, you know, been so tumultuous that it's been kind of difficult to, you know, to ride that wave . And, uh, so I really don't know what the answer to that would be. 

[00:49:59] Andreas Senie: Uh, well, CPA is always the first answer, but yeah, it's hard. 

[00:50:04] Anna Maria Kowalik: go out there and do C paste deals 

[00:50:06] Andreas Senie: and all asset class. It's all deal stages, C paste call and, and find out more information.

Absolutely. And, and that's a fair statement. And again, congratulations on winning your globe street, women of influence award. 

[00:50:22] Anna Maria Kowalik: And, and I, I take that as a real compliment. Influence is where I'd like to be, um, in, in C pace, uh, to be an influencer and to, uh, be able to get that word out and to be able to educate and help promote, uh, on all different levels.

Um, uh, that's probably the, the highest, uh, compliment I could have received. So thank you very much. Appreciate it. Well, and 

[00:50:52] Andreas Senie: as, uh, as Chris pointed out to culture and, and being in the workplace inlands for teachers right. Started with new teachers. So what talk about culture, surviving, persisting, and, and becoming excellence and showing 

[00:51:04] Anna Maria Kowalik: excellence, excellence.

That's the key it's been excellence all along, or 

[00:51:10] Andreas Senie: as you just said, lean and clean. Yeah, 

[00:51:14] Anna Maria Kowalik: well, because clean energy, you know, requires it 

[00:51:20] Andreas Senie: oh, excuse me. Uh, 

[00:51:22] Anna Maria Kowalik: but, but inland has also been, uh, just as a brand, uh, you know, and, uh, uh, and Becca can talk about that a little bit, but, um, uh, the fact is that, uh, they've run a good solid organization for so many years and it's because they have those four school teachers, you know, uh, helping to found it and lay that great foundation.

As I said 

[00:51:49] Andreas Senie: earlier, your network is your net worth internally and external. Yes. And Chris, coming back to your side of the events there. This, this priority placement cert that Becca brought up that I'm sorry. I reco priority placement. 

[00:52:06] Chris Able: she owes you one anyway. 

[00:52:08] Andreas Senie: Yeah, it triggered, it triggered a flag for me.

What happened with. The contractors working together with this, this marketplace of goods to solve the, the supply problem. Are they still exchanging goods? Is that the, what is the big focus for, 

[00:52:21] Chris Able: for this quarter? Yeah, I would, I would say, uh, a little bit, um, you know, behind the scenes, I know we were talking kind of at the local level where you and I are both located.

I'm not seeing as much of it, but I'm, I am seeing some different platforms and some different technology. Um, you know, either being dedicated towards, you know, platforms being, being developed to kind of assist on that or some of the companies in the, in the, um, construction software space, kind of adding elements to it.

So, I don't think, I think harder 

[00:52:55] Andreas Senie: materials for those that didn't know early on how do I borrow my materials or exchange my goods between contractors? Cause I can't find. 

[00:53:02] Chris Able: Yep. And, and there are some on the other side of things, there are some, there are St still continuing to do that with, um, with, uh, you know, with labor too, you know, uh, depending on the situation, you know, and, and it all depends.

You take something like, uh, plumbers, for instance, the rate, you know, the rate for the plumbers gonna basically be the rate for the plumber. It might be a little bit easier versus some of the other trades, um, and how they go about and how they play in the sandbox. But. The contractors understand that you can't just develop a licensed person overnight.

So if, if they're gonna get the job done, they might as well get the job, you know, get the job done and get it done. Right. Um, and work together. Um, so I mentioned at the very top about some, a lot of the contractors I'm talking to are realizing not all of them by all means, but a lot of 'em are realizing that they're financially doing better and looking to do better in 20, 22 than they were in 2021.

And I would say the overall, um, you know, arching, uh, reason for that when I speak to them a little bit deeper is quite frankly, they've worked, they've worked harder foundations there. Yeah. They had to, they started digging in, they started taking jobs. They might have not have followed up with in years past.

Maybe it was a little bit too small. They took on stuff to keep their, keep their, their trades people busy. Um, I mean at the re the reality of it is the, the construction costs. I mean, back in may, we were talking about 14% may to may, by the end of the year, they're talking about like, probably closer to 22% higher than it was last year.

That's a huge, huge, um, number to, to deal with. But the thing is, if you, there, there is, there is, um, you know, brighter skies in 2023 and 2024. It's predicted to go up, uh, you know, to come down, maybe stabilize about 2% and 20, 23 and upwards at 4% in, in 2024. So if you can, if you can take that 20 and 22% hit, it is going to get a little bit easier, hopefully, um, as we all know, anything can happen at any time, but, you know, hopefully these, these contractors that are working, they keep working hard.

Um, hopefully the. they're focusing on their local elections coming up in November and figuring out which candidates they wanna see, move, move things forward because a lot of these companies re rely on the local scene. They don't necessarily rely on the, the big governor up top all the time. And then, uh, you know, and the other thing is getting out to those events and just continue to network, like we've talked about so much.

[00:55:45] Andreas Senie: Absolutely. So the, um, if you made it this far, keep going just 

[00:55:50] Chris Able: basically, there's no reason if you're not gonna shut down, if you're not legitimately saying, Hey, you know what I'm done with this? I'm gonna shut it down. Then what else? What are your other options? Get creative, get U utilize, better marketing, utilize technology and, uh, you know, gain, gain people's trust, all the stuff that we've talked about the last, the last 45 minutes or so.


[00:56:13] Andreas Senie: Speaking of gaining trust, Darren, you know, I'm gonna ask you, I, I key and this comes back to you back on the marketing side. I keep seeing Facebook's promotion about how they're spending umpteenth billion dollars on a security team and how the, how to, how we must use Facebook, no other platforms, cuz they're spending all this money to protect us and keep us safe because they're a trusted platform.

What's the, you, you spoke a lot and you, and we always talk about rans more, cuz for those that don't know, it's, it's a big deal. pay attention. You uh I'll I'll I can't tell you how many people I run into. They're like, how does my phone get infected? Well, you click the link in a text, you know it happens, but what, what do you say to the, to the, the real estate professionals out there?

The, the contractors and such, what should they do dealing with technology with platforms, finding trust, how, how do they find trust in what they're using as Chris pointed out there's new platforms coming. There's this new exchange as, and Becca pointed out early on reputation and Maria, as, you know, building confidence and.

Educating. How do you know who to trust technology wise? 

[00:57:24] Darren Hayes: Well, it's, it's usually Facebook has in privacy, reading an Oracle, we've been putting out a one


could be really, really careful. And so, you know, that, that trust to nothing, um, have, uh, you, you know, seen that has been violated a quite 

[00:58:06] Andreas Senie: real challenge for us. Is there, is there a place people can go look and check, uh, check the, the integrity of software and, and their vendors, not their vendors. That's more of.

Association question. 

[00:58:19] Darren Hayes: There are a lot, lot of companies, um, has allow those apps to be used. And so this is part of mobile where they given employee, where they, if an employee, a they only use cluster to that, perhaps the date. Um, I would just, um, just pictures and post the schools that they go to. Well, most the, the fact of your, your location service is turned on, um, and update the latest mobile operating system.

[00:59:12] Andreas Senie: So, uh, stay updated. Um, step I'm gonna do in reverse, stay updated on your mobile operating systems, check the apps, uh, reputation where you can, uh, cuz your audio cut out a a bit there. Um, and then you mentioned schools. So I, I lost you there. Chat me, come back and I'll tell it to the audience back. As far as here we are end of the year, second half of the year, we're headed back to in person events, we're doing a lot of things, reputation as well as influence confidence and mentorship.

What can we do on the marketing side? What should we be doing? I mean, where do we go? I'm on LinkedIn and LinkedIn to Chris's point is mushrooming. Uh, people are clicking into ask to mentor in groups and there's, I'm getting bombarded. How do we cut through the noise? Which would be doing 

[01:00:05] Bekah Carlson: well? It's like any of these other areas.

I think of Annam Maria's comment earlier about putting in the work. Yeah, you, you have to work in any, any element of marketing. You actually have to put in the work to get recognition. You have to put in the work for your, to be seen, to be noticed, to stand above the crowd. All of those pieces, they actually require a little bit of work.

So put in the work. So don't just say, oh, I'm gonna troll on LinkedIn, decide, Hey, I'm gonna participate. I'm going to like, I'm gonna comment. I'm going to share. I'm going to actually engage with people. I'm going to look up people and learn about them as people, not as sales targets as human beings and get to know them as people, not a sales targets as human beings.

[01:00:56] Andreas Senie: I turn down a lot of invites every week from people. Literally it's a sales like, Hey, you should use our service. At least mention something that I've said somewhere, something to do with me, although I'm pretty sure. And Darren can contest this, but that's actually a bot. There are these, these widgets you can get in your Chrome browsers.

Totally. Yeah. Automatically reach out to others. So how do you know who's real now

actually, I'll tell you how, you know, who's drill. You attend an in-person event. And with that, we are at the top of the hour here. I want to give a special thank you to my host here and our audience. Especially as we head into this labor day, weekend, holiday weekend, I hope most of the audiences off already, and those that aren't call me, let's do a deal.

Let's get finish that, that all being said as a special, thank you. Don't forget to attend CRA tech, New York, October 13th, 12th, 13th, as an exclusive offer. As an audience member use reco 20 new NY for 20% off. World class content, exhibitors, networking, uh, move forward with confidence. I dare say, as you meet with these VCs, I was in that room at that same event.

Back when there were only 80 vendors, there are now 8,000 vendors in this space back to trust and different technology, you know, go follow the money. yeah. Uh, true. Don't forget to download our show anywhere you get your audio apple podcast, Alexa, Google, Spotify, stitch, or Pandora, or simply ask your Alexa to tune into the Cracko a round table with trace, honey.

Don't forget to describe to our YouTube channel where there's a host of great content, including sector interviews and past shows as well as due share rate review, as it really does help. Thank you again. Don't miss next month's round table. And on the 16th, the sector interview with Keith Lampe and Lynn.

Private capitals. We start to talk more and more securities than otherwise. And for those that did miss it, salt client, and I had a great discussion on, uh, how really came to you. Paradigm shifts of it all. And Zillow, for those that don't know, did not get its brokerage license to become a broker.

They got the brokerage license to get data from the MLS. You have to turn to hear the rest of guys, have a great labor day. The audience. Thank will us out.