Roundtable: Technology, Marketing, Brokerage, Government Policy, Capital, Construction & Cyber Security in Real Estate with Andreas Senie


July 08, 2022 Andreas Senie Season 4 Episode 7
WHY DEVELOPMENT SITES LOOK EMPTY AND TRANSACTIONS ARE STALLING IN REAL ESTATE Roundtable: Technology, Marketing, Brokerage, Government Policy, Capital, Construction & Cyber Security in Real Estate with Andreas Senie
More Info Roundtable: Technology, Marketing, Brokerage, Government Policy, Capital, Construction & Cyber Security in Real Estate with Andreas Senie
Jul 08, 2022 Season 4 Episode 7
Andreas Senie

Join Andreas, Saul, Rebekah, and Chris as we discuss the latest business challenges, empty development sites, shifting employment landscape, and work-life balance in our current economic cycle. 

This month's RoundTable included:

Andreas Senie, Host, Founder CRECollaborative
Technology Growth Strategist, CRETech Thought Leader, Founder & Brokerage Owner

Saul Klein, Realtor Emeritus, Data Advocate & Futurist, Original Real Estate Internet Evangelist,  Executive Editor Realty Times

Chris Abel, Membership Director 
Associated Builders & Contractors Association 
CT Chapter

Rebekah Carlson, Founder & CEO Carlson Integrated,
Past President NICAR Association, Brokerage Owner

Anna Maria Kowalik, SVP – Director Business Development Inland Green Capital LLC, a capital provider for commercial C-PACE projects and part of The Inland Real Estate Group of Companies, Inc.

Your all in one comprehensive view of what is happening across the real estate industry -- straight from some of the industry's earliest technology adopters and foremost experts in Technology, Marketing, Capital, Construction & Cyber Security in Real Estate 

Part I: Introductions and what's new for each panelist and the business sector
Part II: Sector Focus on the past month's most prominent news and paradigm shifts
Part III: What does all this mean for real estate businesses, and what you can do for the next 30 days

Learn more at

#datadrivenbusiness #businessmanagement #commercialrealestate #crecollaborator

Show Notes Transcript

Join Andreas, Saul, Rebekah, and Chris as we discuss the latest business challenges, empty development sites, shifting employment landscape, and work-life balance in our current economic cycle. 

This month's RoundTable included:

Andreas Senie, Host, Founder CRECollaborative
Technology Growth Strategist, CRETech Thought Leader, Founder & Brokerage Owner

Saul Klein, Realtor Emeritus, Data Advocate & Futurist, Original Real Estate Internet Evangelist,  Executive Editor Realty Times

Chris Abel, Membership Director 
Associated Builders & Contractors Association 
CT Chapter

Rebekah Carlson, Founder & CEO Carlson Integrated,
Past President NICAR Association, Brokerage Owner

Anna Maria Kowalik, SVP – Director Business Development Inland Green Capital LLC, a capital provider for commercial C-PACE projects and part of The Inland Real Estate Group of Companies, Inc.

Your all in one comprehensive view of what is happening across the real estate industry -- straight from some of the industry's earliest technology adopters and foremost experts in Technology, Marketing, Capital, Construction & Cyber Security in Real Estate 

Part I: Introductions and what's new for each panelist and the business sector
Part II: Sector Focus on the past month's most prominent news and paradigm shifts
Part III: What does all this mean for real estate businesses, and what you can do for the next 30 days

Learn more at

#datadrivenbusiness #businessmanagement #commercialrealestate #crecollaborator

[00:00:00] Andreas Senie: Welcome back to this month's real estate round table. Your all in one comprehensive view of what's happening across the real estate industry, straight from some of the industry's earliest technology, adopters and foremost experts in technology, marketing, capital, construction, and cybersecurity as always.

This is a three part show part, one introductions what's happening with each of our round table hosts part two, a sector focus, paradigm shifts. What, what is the biggest change or news? In their spaces and part three, what does it really mean for your business? What can you do over the next 30 days to continue to thrive?

I'm enjoy a semi founder theory, collaborative brokerage owner and technology growth strategist. And joining me this month is another then saline, founder of real town, futurist strategist trainer, speaker, car wash, owner. In future economic indicator, presenter, Saul. Nice to have you back. 

[00:01:07] Saul Klein: Always 

[00:01:07] Andreas Senie: good to be back.

All right. Uh, Rebecca Carlson, president and CEO of Carlson integrated past president of NICAR association and my favorite marketing Maven. That's their tagline, Becca. Nice to be back from Europe, some new tips and new tricks. I hope glad 

[00:01:24] Bekah Carlson: to be 

[00:01:24] Andreas Senie: here. Thank you, Andreas. And joining us all the way from one of the great leagues this month.

Anna Maria quack. Welcome back SVP director of business development in the green capital, all things green CP construction, Anna. 

[00:01:37] Anna Maria Kowalik: Welcome. Thank you very much. And, uh, being that I'm, I'm coming to you from the lakes of Minnesota. Uh, I, um, missed, uh, having 4th of July, but this is 4th of July week here, uh, all over.

Uh, but at back home, uh, there was a, uh, an horrible tragedy at, in Highland park. And so I'd just like to ask for a moment of silence just in honor of those who lost their lives. Thank you. Absolutely.

[00:02:12] Andreas Senie: Okay.

and last but not least. And Chris Abel director of membership at the Connecticut associated builders and contractors, all things construction. One of my favorite people to talk to here about the Northeast education and really labor. And what's the, the nitty gritty, the building of it all. Chris, welcome back.

[00:02:39] Chris Abel: Absolutely happy to be here as always. 

[00:02:43] Andreas Senie: Thank you, Chris. A special congratulations to professor Darren Hayes for his anniversary. He will not make it this evening. He's busy at home, uh, taking some, some needed rest with that. Thank you guys, as always for tuning in with great show lined up for you cannot wait to talk about the economic trends, the different things that are happening.

As usual with you, Saul, what's going on with this car wash, let's start there and we'll, and we'll lift all, 

[00:03:10] Saul Klein: you know, I, you got me looking at this stuff more carefully now. and, and so when we, years ago, when we went from just a coin changer to, um, to taking credit cards, that was a major change. And what we then could see is which stalls did the best, what time of day they did the best.

This is real interesting. Right? And could we do things to enhance one stall over another, if we blocked one, right? So we could do all these things because we had information that we never had before. Well, now, as we, you got me looking at this, you know, I always know that when it does better and when it doesn't.

But I never really bothered to correlate anymore why or why it might not, and what I can do about it. Right. So I sent you some financials on the car wash. So this is the time of year that the car wash it's better as with many businesses. It's seasonal time of year is better than the other time of year.

So when you look at month after month, month to month or back a year, that's what we look at. How did we do last July, uh, or last June last may? How do we do this? May, this June. And so the trend has to be, and when I looked at the numbers, I shared them with you that it was up, right? And then we're up about 10, 12%.

As a matter of fact, now, what can I attribute that to? And I wanna say, you know what, when the car wash business is. What's what's happening with inflation are any correlations here what's happening with home sales, what's happening with vacancies? What hap, and somehow can I tie that car wash some factors from car wash, which are, you know, kind of blue collar folks, working folks, living in apartment buildings.

Is there any correlation that we can establish, um, with maybe being able to forecast. Economically. So I would tell you that the car wash business is looking good. Is that good or bad? Well, it tells you the more people are washing their cars. Um, we increased the prices a couple months ago. It hasn't been affected again, we're up over 12%, so things are good, uh, at the car wash and business is good.

That also means the sun is shining and that is a figure factor in 

[00:05:23] Andreas Senie: owning a car wash. Well, you're in the right location, location, location. I hesitate to say it. California is great for car washes. Great, uh, in a great business considerably, uh, as the owner, a cash business. And, and I think you touched on a great point.

Uh, you said you now have the ability to, to monitor and look into things. And that's really where the industry's gone. It's realizing that, Hey, Tuesday's my slow. Let me, let me put a discount out there and marketing it out and, and correlating that just right over real estate. What assets, what markets, where can I do better?

Where can I shore up my, my, my business, even if it's prospecting, 

[00:06:00] Saul Klein: because you can look at the data, whether or not you take the time to look at the data. That's another story, right? But we know now that you can make intelligent, better smarter decisions, because information is available to you. That's never been available before.

[00:06:17] Andreas Senie: That's true. I, I, anything available, 

[00:06:19] Saul Klein: but very much more difficult to, to get your 

[00:06:21] Andreas Senie: hands on. I often would say that, um, we, we are in the luckiest point with technology because there's the, technology's there to go get as much business as we want. If you're willing to do the work, you, you can go knock on doors.

You can let your fingers do the walking. You can find the information. those putting it out there. Of course, being the marketers out there, getting it right in front of us all the time, such as Beck Carlsen. Are you, are you in shock returning to the us now that we're welcome 

[00:06:48] Bekah Carlson: back. There's no place like home.

There's no place like home there's so my daughter and I had a wonderful vacation and as expected, it always triggers marketing ideas. I actually, if you know, if this marketing thing doesn't work for me, I'm gonna be a food importer, a hundred percent. I had some wonderful snacks that I can't find here, including, and I can't believe I'm telling everybody this, because I think this is the most genius snack in the world.

We were on a train going to Berlin and there was this Pret. and then you bid into it. It was filled with butter , which is maybe not like the healthiest snack, but it was delightful. It was the best pre I've ever had in my life. And it was like a mass produced in plastic snack that they were just handing out as, you know, local fair.

Like I said, if marketing doesn't work out, I've got a second career lined up third career. I didn't, you know, 

[00:07:42] Andreas Senie: oh, that's fantastic. Look, uh, food. Well, you're a foodie. I can say that right. Is everybody on the call of foodie relatively? Um, but it being in Europe, uh, did you notice any, any similarities to our markets, anything going on there that, that you wanna jump out at us besides the vacation spots and the food while, while we're talking

[00:08:02] Bekah Carlson: So I would say that there are, and we were in a number of capitals in major cities. So it was a Baltic cruise. So we visited no fewer than nine cities in 10 days, the. Development differs, depending on the cities, there are factors that we haven't ever had to consider like rebuilding after world war II.

Some, so the, the span of architecture over a vast period of time is considerably different than we experience here in the us, but it is great to see cranes. It's great to see commerce working it's was wonderful to see the sea transport and things like that. Obviously there's then been some impact and the impact of the, of the Ukrainian and Russian war is considerable.

We were in Poland for one of those days, but it's also was really neat to speak with our guide in Helsinki about how they're integrating families already into the school system, how the refugees are, are really being welcomed and experiencing a new home. So. Those pieces, right? Whenever your population increase, they're gonna be real estate needs.

[00:09:14] Andreas Senie: Mm-hmm 

[00:09:14] Bekah Carlson: but retail follows rooftops. That's what I always learned earlier. 

[00:09:17] Andreas Senie: That's a good one. I'm gonna borrow that one, but you touched on it world war of course. Paradigm shifts. So the paradigm shift, not just COVID here C that's the big, but there, of course, the Ukrainian war. And, uh, it sounds like you did see cranes were those unfinished products cuz of labor shortages.

I don't know, but I know Chris, you, and I touched a bit on this prior to the call. How are things in construction overall? You know, here in the us, 

[00:09:43] Chris Abel: it's busy, but it's just tough. Like, you know, the, the I'm seeing the cranes the same, the same way, but it's a matter of, okay, is there anyone actually in that, in that seat and actually operating and if they are doing it now, will they be doing it in the next few years?

So yeah. I mean a lot of different, um, A lot of different issues going on, uh, right now. But you know, this time of year I'm I'm in Connecticut, this time of year, this is gonna be a busy time for construction. Regardless. It's always going to be busy. There's always going to be projects to be built. There's no shortage of actual construction going on, but there are, uh, there's also no shortage of stress from a lot of the business owners that I'm dealing with.

And the, uh, you know, I, I, I joked around with someone yesterday and said, Hey, I would love to be about 20 years younger and getting into the construction industry right now. Cuz just seeing how the, uh, you know, some of the wage growth and the demand of a, of, you know, the skill trades, uh, In general where they are and where they're going.

I mean, it would be great. It'd be great to be in that position, but being that I'm not in that position, um, in a spot where I'm just trying to help solve problems for, uh, for a lot of different companies and a lot of different members and, you know, trying to find new and innovative ways for them to get the jobs done and get people on the job.

[00:11:05] Andreas Senie: So, and. I also am here in Connecticut. And I there's a few sites here that I'm gonna pick your brain on, off call that are not busy. Sure, sure. So they might be acquisition opportunities. They may need CPAC funding and Marie I'm coming to you and I'm coming back around economic indicators, absolutely cap rates, the gap between our investors and our owners.

I mean, the market is we're at that. What a tipping point, I would say where investors coming in are are, are nowhere near what the owners wanna sell for. And now they're willing to wait. And as I understand it, N Maria, you and I were talking about this CPA is, is a good inflationary hedge. In that regard lending, there is still active.

I mean, that's growing and all of which bring it back to the economic indicators of this car wash stall. How'd you do in the last quarter compared to prior quarter comparative better. I got on better so, so people out there spending money, even though realtors are now riding in their client's cars to save gas.


[00:12:02] Saul Klein: you know, you gotta say at one level. Right. Look at the demographic and you know, people, but we're getting a lot more car washes than we, we got in the past. Now, remember, this is, there are limitations, right? Because if an average car wash last five, even if you win a hundred percent occupancy, let's say, right, there's a limitation on just what that can do.

There is a vacancy factor, right? So our effort is to decrease the amount of time that those stalls are empty. And it seems like, uh, they're just, they're more and more, those stalls are active and people are using them. And, uh, and that's a, to me, that's a good sign. At least there's activity. It's all about momentum, you know, and 

[00:12:41] Andreas Senie: not, and I, I just had an interesting thought and, uh, Anna Maria, correct me if I'm wrong, Ken SA upgrade his, his carwash because you go green.

Absolutely. All sea pace financing in theory, because he's in 

[00:12:56] Anna Maria Kowalik: theory. Yeah. 

[00:12:57] Andreas Senie: Exactly. That's kind of an 

[00:12:59] Saul Klein: interesting, so now listen, now here's something where think about water 

[00:13:02] Anna Maria Kowalik: conservation measures and why not add renewable energies to it as well. So, especially 

[00:13:08] Saul Klein: Southern California, California now in San Diego, mm-hmm, the, you can't wash your cars unless you go to a car wash.

So they just passed ordinance that says you have to go to a car wash. Now you love laws like that, right? You do. 

[00:13:25] Andreas Senie: That's 

[00:13:25] Saul Klein: another factor. No, it's just like, what are, what are the forces? The four grade forces that influence value, physical, social, economic, and political. Those are the four great forces that influence value, right?

Physical, social, economic, and political. And so here we have with this barrel basic kind of business, right. A car wash where you can actually see those forces mm-hmm, affecting the. And of course the value then comes outta the cash flow and cash flow is what everybody buys. And I saw an interesting phrase the other day.

It was something like cash flow, cash flow feeds you net, net, net worth is for bragging cash flow is for eating and it had to do with buying a property. If you're gonna hold it long term, you know, the rent didn't get cut value might have got cut in half, but the rent didn't get cut in half. And so people that buy and buy to hold even no matter what in the cycles they typically will do.

Okay. But I thought that was a great phrase, right? Yeah. You're at your net. Worth's gone down and, but net worth is for bragging and cash 

[00:14:25] Andreas Senie: flow is for eating. That's sure there, there are a lot of developers owners, you know, the numbers on a lot of these projects, syndication deals, the distributions are gonna tighten up the numbers, the projections aren't gonna look as good.

But if that cash flow is there, you can, you can fall back and, and focus on your core and make it through you just gotta tighten your belt, just like mom and, uh, mom and Joe, any of the regular businesses, a car wash, you just reduce expenses. I get back to Anne 

[00:14:53] Saul Klein: Maria, the, and to rewrite it, the more that we.

That we can do something that, uh, can cut the cost. And if that's environmentally friendly at the same time, then that's a totally no brainer. Right. That's the 

[00:15:03] Anna Maria Kowalik: absolutely. And that's what we're based on. Is it being a no brainer? Uh, and, and, you know, in, in trying to grow the program nationwide, because it's still kind of in its infancy, uh, with only 10 years behind us, you know?

And, and so it, it really, uh, takes a lot of education on it, uh, to bring it forward so that people feel comfortable with it and, and find a trust factor in it because, uh, when something's so new and it almost sounds too good to be true, you know? Uh, do I wanna take a risk on this, but you're risking more by.

Try and get out because, uh, like you said, there are so many different other costs involved, uh, environmental and, uh, the green money as well too, you know, because, uh, you know, why, why spend all that extra on the utilities and, and, and being wasteful. And, and so, especially for car washes, oh, they're a hot item in the industry actually right 

[00:16:11] Andreas Senie: now.

I love it. Well, and, and when you think about it, the easiest way to cut costs is to prove improve efficiency. So upgrading those, those machines. So that vacuum only goes for one minute instead of two and a half minutes at half the power. That sounds green to me. Automatically. 

[00:16:27] Anna Maria Kowalik: Absolutely. That's what we say about H V a C replacements automatically just by virtue.

You know, the units are typically 18 to 25 years old that are getting changed out. And so with the new technologies, they're definitely more energy efficient to begin with. And so just by virtue of changing them out, you're already, automatically there. 

[00:16:49] Andreas Senie: The is back, uh, over to you. I know you're back from vacation and unfair as it is anything, uh, any big changes or I wanna say like reductions in marketing are people starting to pull back on, on those areas because they're saying, let me focus my funds on the core.


[00:17:09] Bekah Carlson: I haven't seen it. But I am doing my, you know, third and fourth quarter strategic planning. And part of that is creating a process and a mechanism so that clients can, can execute their own marketing plans providing. So we're literally putting packages together now where we can create the plan and create the structure around it and the chart, the progress, and check in with them and those sorts of pieces, but that they can self execute, recognizing that it may be harder for some clients to hire an outside agency or outside a set of couple sets of hands to help them.

[00:17:49] Andreas Senie: And not that that's fantastic. Do it yourself toolbox after the fact sort of like here's your toolbox follow our process right back to our, back to our original discussion as a group, the four of us, uh, Anna Maria, prior your time about just rewriting your. your processes. Let's go back to basics, but we're not rewriting anything for most of us on this call.

We've all been in this space 2008 saw you were here prior to, uh,

[00:18:20] Anna Maria Kowalik: so not calling you out or anything. Saul? 

[00:18:23] Andreas Senie: No, he's the, he's the internet evangelist for, for real estate. I mean, that's, it's a self-proclaimed title. Um, so 92, let's go 92 in 2008. What you've seen this before? I, I imagine anything new with technology here that, that you'd like to point out that's happening with us is real estate professionals, marketers and financing.

[00:18:46] Saul Klein: There's lots of, are you talking real estate finance today? You know, it's interest. Yeah. Right. So things just kind of move. And things happen in the background. And all of a sudden people say, how, when did that happen? And, uh, boy that happened overnight can't believe. Right? So I w would say that, um, there are many things taking place in the, on the mortgage side and will creep over to the real estate side regarding technologies, transaction efficiencies, visibility, transparency, around risk.

uh, being able to better grade in the secondary money market. So all that, all those things are happening. And, and so there are gonna be major changes to people without pinpointing. And so what I like to to say to people is this question, you know, it's currently possible, and if it were impossible and fundamentally change the way you do business, and what if certain things that you take for granted that you do today?

What if they're not possible tomorrow? Or what if certain things that are not possible today in your business would be possible tomorrow? And look at that with regarding technology, you know, regarding technology and my kind of thoughts about this, at least over the last five or six years is everything I ever thought would never be is, is here.

And so I can't even my, my, for a while. I, I couldn't even imagine science fiction anymore because anything someone would say to me, I would say I've seen bigger. I've seen more bigger deals than that already. Oh, So that's nothing, that's nothing. So I kept thinking I can wrap my arms around that science fiction and what I think I can, again, there are things that I'm looking at today that lead me to way out kind of thoughts around these newer technologies and then some that apply to real basic things.

And I'll just jump into one. Cause I think it's critical today and it's the whole concept of fractional. And it's how blockchain affects that. And you saw a piece that I published of two real of car wash tokens, right? And what's the token. People want to talk NFTs, tokens, NFTs, and people don't even know what tokens are.

How can they talk about NFTs, non fungible tokens? Well, no, they don't even remember in their mind tokens, tokens and what a token does. And only when you understand that, can you begin to understand beyond that, but this idea of fractionalization and the fact that blockchain, you can do many more transactions, less expensively quicker, and what does that entail?

And what's taking place. And so we've always fractionalized real estate. That's what happens. Somebody buys a piece of property. They subdivide it when they subdivide it and increases the value of the individual parcels. Somebody builds on it indivi. Right? So the whole idea in real estate's been fractionalization corporations are fractionalization right.

But it takes a while to process this. So what you were I'm seeing today is some technologies around fractionalizing certain types of interest in real property, around things I never thought would take place before because people believe that if they do that, there are gonna be markets for this. And blockchain is the technology that makes it run.

And I people say, well, people are gonna be priced out of the real estate market. You're not gonna be able to buy your home. And maybe the time in which you buy your first home might be later in life than it now is, but there are gonna be other opportunities to buy real estate, $25 a piece, and some blockchain investments somewhere it's all happened.

[00:22:07] Andreas Senie: There. There's a few apps I've come across where you buy a fractional ownership interest in your first, you know, investment property, not a security. or right, because of not a security, but really very similar. So yeah, absolutely fractionalized interest. 

[00:22:22] Anna Maria Kowalik: Well, and then you look at, uh, just us talking to each other, like this and to all kinds of other listeners, uh, I mean, you know, pre COVID, we weren't doing it as much and Y yes, the technology was there, but it's really come such a long way.

And especially for like Becca and myself, uh, a guy I'm doing business development and her with the marketing, I mean, we get out there and we are, uh, kind of all over the place at once. And, uh, and I remember watching the Jetsons as a kid for anybody who I may be dating myself. Uh, but the Jetsons was my favorite cartoon.

And here they, I, I love the flying cars. Gotta admit it, but more than that, I, I wanted the phone where you could see a person on the other end and, and wow. You know, it's come true in my lifetime. So that's pretty awesome.

[00:23:21] Andreas Senie: they have flying cars. We just, they're not master. They do exist too. And 

[00:23:23] Anna Maria Kowalik: I want the one that, you know, goes up, parks itself drives you around, you know, 

[00:23:27] Saul Klein: and all that. It's all gonna happen. They're gonna geo code from the surface of the earth to a thousand miles up and the vehicles will know what quadrants they fly in.

It'll be automatic and there'll be no accidents. You'll get in it. It'll go up. It'll find where it's supposed to go. It'll go there. That's all gonna happen. 

[00:23:45] Anna Maria Kowalik: Yeah, that that'll be great for my retirement. I can have my own driver. 

[00:23:50] Chris Abel: I know, I know on the, uh, I know on the contractor side of things, the embracing of, of technology more, more than anything.

I mean, it's, it's about, I mean, this is for, um, All sorts of different businesses, but from what I see, I mean, it's about survival. If they're not embracing the, all this technology that's out there at this point, it's the difference between, you know, uh, getting on the next job and closing up shop or passing it on to the next generation or, or, or, or just calling it a day or selling it off to, to someone who's not a family member who, you know, is embracing technology and the, the same thing on, even on the, the marketing side, um, Becca, you probably see some of this there.

And I think I might have mentioned this a couple, a few months back, but I'm noticing with the, the hiring, we're seeing more, I'm seeing more companies taking marketing dollars and put it into the, into the HR side of things and into the hiring side to market their companies and market to get that attraction where they're not necessarily marketing all the work that they do to get more business.

They're trying to figure out where to spend their dollars, you know, Is it gonna go that in that direction? Or is it gonna go in a way of attracting the people that can actually do the works? When we have the work, we don't get caught with our pants down and not, not be able to complete the job. It's, it's such a, such an, an odd, you know, shift.

That was the first thing I thought about Becca. When you mentioned kind of that. Do it yourself type of thing. So they can kind of take that role with it, to still cover that base, but also cover the base of trying to market their, uh, their company in a way to attract the right people. It's a weird time.

It's, it's an interesting time 

[00:25:26] Bekah Carlson: for sure. It's fascinating that you say that because I would say over the past two months, we've had four or five clients. Who've asked us to help them with structuring advertisements for hiring and writing job Des like, I didn't know, like I, I used to hire for my old company.

And so I've done a lot of job descriptions in my career. Sure. I just never thought of it. As part of our marketing services. One of my team members has well over a decade in the HR experience. So we are adept at that HR piece, but I never thought of it as being part of our business. And suddenly it's become a part of our business because it is that attracting new talent is such a big piece of it.

And people are using online platforms to do that. And if we have clients that are already. Not as adept at some of the online platforms and they need a little bit of hand holding, well, you better believe they need hand holding, placing the job ad on LinkedIn, right? Yeah. 

[00:26:23] Chris Abel: And there are a lot of places they're expecting like the, the, the potential, the potential employees expecting the first interview to be like this.

Yeah. They're not expecting to have to get dressed up and show up at eight or nine o'clock in the morning and park at a visitor's spot. And they're expecting that first. And maybe even that second interview, I spoke with a friend of mine earlier and you know, three interviews and they've all been virtual.

And I said, well, where's, you know, the job must be farther away. She's like, no, it's, it's like a half hour away. It's in this town. And I was like, where, where are, you know, when, when are they gonna call you in to check all, you know, body language? This is going in the back of my head body language is they handshake it.

I'm like, all right, am I dating myself? Or what is, what is going on here? But yeah, it's pretty wild. It's pretty wild. 

[00:27:07] Andreas Senie: Well, the world, the world today's changing it. And you touched on Becky, you touched on something interesting there, and, and Chris, the people coming in this crossover or spillover of responsibilities, almost people are expected to know more and do more.

Uh, which I dunno, being a generalist is fantastic and is important, but Bob McComb's a, a friend of mine and, and specializing in a, in your field being a specialist and being, and committing yourself to excellence in that field or in that space. It's also important. So how much of it, how broad can you really go?

That's I'm seeing the same here. Generalists, brokers, generalists, everything. I don't think labor shortage or not. I think that is a contributing factor to, to this separation between the old school and new school. You, you can't do it this way. Uh, 

[00:28:01] Saul Klein: well, you know, you talked about the labor though. You, uh, you know, people that you hire different levels expecting that they have certain technology skills.

I think that just comes with the territory and that's not new. When I remember when we had to say, you know, do you know how to use email? Do you know how to get information off of this? True. And do you know how to use word, you know, how to use Excel and people come to, and people could say they knew it.

We actually had tests when we people came in, so we could find out. And then a lot of times people hire and didn't know how to use the things that the people who we right. But they, but everybody knows how to use these things. Now that businesses adapted and people adapted and adopted based on their needs.

And I think it's not any more the technologies today are certainly no more difficult. People are certainly more, more used to using these kinds of things and they're generational piece. But I, I think that, that there's, there is a lot and there always has been, since we started. Uh, with personal computers back in 1980, whatever , 

[00:29:06] Andreas Senie: um, and the construction side are, are people ex expected to know more like a pro core for instance, is that, is that a trait for labor wise, Chris?

[00:29:15] Chris Abel: I would, I would say, I mean, there's a, there's a whole slew of different programs and it's a matter of what a particular company might be looking for. Obviously, when you're talking about, you know, when you're talking about, uh, things like Procore, that might be a little more of the, the standard, but there's also companies that are looking for very, you know, specific things.

And if you, if you have just that niche where, Hey, I've used this, I've used that, um, And you show a little bit of a stable of what you can do. They say, well, if they learn those things, then we could teach them, um, something else. Um, and it's funny. So the first I, when you mentioned, uh, back in the day of people not knowing, you know, do you know how to use email and things like that?

I remember, um, when I first started working within the school systems, I always got a kick out of the students who would bring in a resume or put in a resume, um, that had someone else's email address on it. the name, the name didn't match. But to, to your point though, um, Andreas. Yeah. I mean, there's, there's kind of your standard softwares and your standard programs, but also.

You know, your other type of, uh, elements that you know, are expected. If you're an electrician, if you're working in HVAC, there's certain pieces of equipment that they wanna make sure that, you know, do you know how to use this? Are, are you proficient in it? How, how proficient are you in actually learning something, um, new, if we're willing to train you on it, because, um, by the way, we're going to pay you more than you would've got paid.

I mean, there's been like an 8% like wage increase since like 2019 in the construction industry, something like that. So, Hey, we're going to pay you more than you. Would've got paid six months to two it's to two years ago to three years ago. So we wanna make sure that we're making the right hire of someone that can actually, uh, pick this stuff up and, and go.

And if you actually know this stuff to begin with, that's gonna make it a little bit easier for us to, to, to write that check. Um, every, every couple weeks, um, well, 

[00:31:15] Anna Maria Kowalik: and even in our. Small pace industry. That's very new. Um, there are folks putting together different programs, uh, for, uh, consolidating bids, uh, proposals and term sheets and, um, and, and comparing, uh, uh, programs across the nation and, uh, what those, um, uh, qualifications and requirements are, for example.

And so, um, yeah, there, there are ki very specific areas and niches where, uh, you, you can see more of this advancement as well. 

[00:31:58] Andreas Senie: Sure. But, and CPAC itself is a newer product. It's a whole new segment to lending to capital is. has construction helped you get the word out has helped you grow this much, further and faster, not in comparison to let's say a or another legislation, another product.

Would you say that that's true, you were doing right before? Well, 

[00:32:20] Saul Klein: I, 

[00:32:20] Anna Maria Kowalik: I, I've seen a, uh, a huge growth in the new construction arena, uh, with CPAC being used a lot more as that gap filler, uh, in the capital stack. And so, uh, although originally the original premise, uh, for CPAC, uh, was to help, uh, aging building stock, uh, get improved and become more energy efficient and, uh, and to be available to the small commercial property owner, as well as, you know, a large developer or et cetera.

So. So it, it's kind of branched out in, in different ways and, uh, and, and that all is, uh, necessity based, you know? And, and so, uh, one thing that we are seeing lately, as far as trends, um, deals are beginning to take a little longer again, uh, at first it was COVID, uh, now it's, uh, the fact that, or it's even though some of the supply chain issues have, uh, resolved, uh, in the construction industry, but there are still are some, uh, there still, still are many.

Uh, but it's just that, it's it. The construction process is taking longer. The, uh, you know, and correct me if I'm wrong, Chris, I maybe you're seeing some of these same trends as well. And so, uh, this has been really, you know, stretching out our deal time, uh, a as far. You know what we're seeing for sea pace.

Uh, and I'm sure that it affects other aspects of the industry as well. 

[00:34:04] Andreas Senie: Uh, absolutely. And Chris jumping at any time, the many deals from everyone I'm talking with architects, developers, all, you hit it right on the head. It's no longer a supply shortage. It's no long. And to this conversation, it's not even a labor shortage from what I'm hearing.

It's this, this extended time that was brought on first by the supply shortage now by the labor shortage. And now with the inflation increase in rates, all of these deals are kind of like stuck. And that was what I alluded to earlier is plenty of sites here with cranes on them back to your point, but there's nobody in them.

so you're just there. And the investment groups are here and we're kind of talking and all of a sudden we're just miles apart. Uh, which is my biggest concern as a broker in the area is we're gonna, well, if we can't make a deal. you know, and then there's no movement here. These are gonna stay up DM. Then what are we gonna do?

We're gonna start to have a depressed area. You know, um, lights off is, is detrimental to all of the tenants, empty senators, UN unless you're in Shelton, which is doing fantastic. Come to Shelton, call me, we love this market. 

[00:35:13] Chris Abel: Go ahead. No one, one thing that I'm seeing, and I know we talked about, I think I mentioned this back a couple months ago.

Um, one thing that I'm seeing, uh, is the school projects. So the colleges, the colleges and those projects, those are active. They're very active. The contracts are very strict and they need to get these things done while the students are gone for the summer and there's, um, you know, state money and there's federal money and there's other money wrapped up there.

So I see the schools in, at least in my area, um, And I, I don't necessarily know about the middle schools or high schools. I'm talking more of the college campuses that I'm driving through, or that I, you know, larger, larger, you know, the ones that you're gonna drive through on a, on a, on a regular basis where you're gonna kind of, you're gonna see these things.

They're not in the back roads. Like maybe some of the, some of the high schools or middle schools, but those college, those college, uh, campuses seem to be very active. Um, I've spoken to a bunch of people that have been on those jobs that aren't necessarily members that I deal with every day. Literally I'm starting conversations with people.

I'm grabbing my coffee in the morning to find out what's going on over at Wesley and in Middletown, what's going on over down at Yale and new Haven. What's going on at these places, uh, university of Hartford, all these different places. And they're just, they're, they're busy because these contracts need to get fulfilled.

Now, a lot of these companies know that that money's there, that money. They're getting that money. It's it's, it's either been paid to them or it's going to get paid to them. The checks are good. So it's pulling people off of their, you know, some of their smaller jobs and some of those jobs that you're talking about, where there is that, that balance of, you know, well, we're not gonna get this, these parts over there for another six months anyway.

So we might as well put these people on the campus and have them just let's knock this job out. Um, because the colleges were always going to have jobs going on. When I was, when I was younger, I used to joke and say, yeah, I go to Yale every year. I go to Yale. Every summer people thought I was, you know, trying like I was a student.

I was like, no, no, no, I, I did commercial hardwood floors for years. There's always going to be stuff going on at the colleges and in the school system, much like healthcare, um, construction. You're just as good as your last job. So if you show and prove at those positions, those GCs are gonna bring back you as a sub, those people who are working in those Yukon, Yale, all these different schools, they're going to bring you back as a cm or a GC.

If you get the job done, you're going to continue to get work at those, those schools. So it all of suddenly becomes a, um, a much more of a priority based situation to make sure they can get a check to pay their employees, to keep their employees. Cuz if you have a project manager who's not happy and not getting paid, they're gonna find somewhere else to go.

Um, they could have whats 

[00:38:02] Anna Maria Kowalik: what is the real difference between those college jobs and uh, say, you know, uh, uh, an elementary school or what it's where the money comes from. Right? Uh, you've got more private infusion. You've got tuition being paid on the one end and on the other, you know, you've got a public.

Uh, scenario in, in most cases. And, and that is where, uh, you know, uh, CPAC finds its uh, you know, in the private institutions because it's, it's the private investment in private projects that we're dealing with. And so, you know, uh, And I, I do see the difference, uh, in those two segments. And why you see that market difference in, uh, jobs getting done as well?

[00:38:55] Saul Klein: Absolutely. So I used to know people that like were trades people, right? They mm-hmm , but they ran their own businesses. I had a very good friend who was a plaster, right? Mm-hmm and he owned his own business and he passed a business onto his son and he built up of, you know, people who would hire him. He built a book of business mm-hmm

And so it sounds because there's such a shortage of skilled labor today. It sounds like maybe this is a good time for an entre and maybe not, but for somebody who wants to build their own business as a plaster, as a carpenter, as a trade Skillman, build their own little business and work for general, this might be a time to build that kind of book of business.

Mm-hmm because they're such a, such a shortage. 

[00:39:35] Chris Abel: Absolutely. I've seen, I've seen some really, really good, um, Uh, real, there's some really good stories or of people doing that around here that I've seen, um, you know, young electricians, you know, very young electricians, uh, very young, um, you know, drywall, you know, they, they, they just, they know how to do it.

They decide to grab onto it. Um, and then there was, uh, first thing that popped into mind. Um, there's a caulking company and they are, they're just, you know, they're known to. it's really, really good. So they could basically pick and choose their jobs. And they've built, they've built such a strong business.

I actually spoke to the son about a month ago and I was happy to hear that he's taking it on. Um, and he's gonna do, he's gonna do fine. He's gonna, he's gonna make Boku money and, and, and do great as long as he, as long as he keeps his head in the game and it's gonna be more technology based when, with him coming into play, you know, 

[00:40:33] Andreas Senie: just cause he's younger.

And he has, has the wherewithal of over his background. But what you're saying is we should all go into construction and let's do it. so why do you have a labor shortage? There's something else here. Yeah. 

[00:40:46] Chris Abel: Well, 

[00:40:47] Saul Klein: skill labor in particular. That's hard to replace, right? Yes. 

[00:40:51] Chris Abel: Right. That's fair point. Yeah. The skilled, the skilled labor side is just, it's just hard to replace.

I mean, I spent, I spent over 10 years in the schools talking to students and I mean, I was just speaking to a, to someone yesterday who had to let a couple people go last week because he didn't plan on it. But basically he went down to, you know, he went down to a site and they were already gone.

Lunchtime. It wasn't Friday. It was Thursday at three o'clock and they were just, they, they decided to take off and then he already knows that part of the reason is because they want to get off an hour earlier. So they have an extra hour of free time. Literally, this is what they're saying to, and then another one wants to be able to, it just doesn't work that way.

You gotta, you know, you gotta, unfortunately you gotta stay when, stay till until, you know, the job is done. And it is what it is. Like I said, I used to, I used to be in, in those, uh, in those spaces and be on those job sites. And, you know, there were times where we'd get, you know, be able to knock off early and maybe get home a little bit.

There'd be times where, you know, you know, you're staying there a certain time. It's just, it's, it's that skill. The, the, the interest, the interest there is really just wavering right now as to what they actually want to do a, a younger person. What's what they actually 

[00:42:08] Andreas Senie: want to do. Well that, so you mentioned something interesting there about, I need an hour of free time work.

Life balance is incredibly important. I did not do this very well for a long time, but the last two years have been great. That's an inside joke. My wife's watching. She better be , uh, the so work life balance. And it, it, especially now trying times 40 hours is really 60 hours. Uh, at least in real estate, apparently 40 is 30 in construction.

And I'm really gonna go hang Sheetrock after this call, essentially. Yeah. Um, at least a couple days a week. So labor shortage, this new generation, the retail re what I'm hearing similar to your, I need one hour of my time is I'm not gonna do that because I don't feel like doing it that I can't do that right now that that's it, you know, you're my employee.

You're gonna do it because I need you to do it. No, I don't do that. That's somebody else, which bottles me. Like when you show up to work, you you're there to get things done, whatever needs to get done, you get done. Uh, I'll never forget it. My first restaurant I worked in ever guy's in a suit and tie nine celebrities out front, the owner, he's washing dishes in the back.

Why? Because he owned the place and it had to get done. Whatever you do, you just get in there and do it. Although, as, as Beck pointed out, you're doing you're, we've got all these generalists, doing everything, but unwilling to do certain things, as Chris said, or taking off. What can we do? Or what do we do now?

I mean, finances been the same boat. Presumably, are you guys having the same new way? Not new. I'm sorry, I don't wanna say generational. Change this shift in work dynamic. Hey, wait before, before you 

[00:43:46] Saul Klein: go. I wanna, I wanna give you a, you wanna jump in? Yeah. I wanna jump in on this life balance thing, 

[00:43:50] Andreas Senie: right.

Balance from not Hawaii. John's 

[00:43:52] Saul Klein: I think it's, I think it's, it's totally overrated. You know, the only person that should be able to tell you that you need life balance is your spouse, your partner. anybody else, because if you're in business and you're trying to build a business, if you're not at a point in your life where you have enough put away so that you, you better be working day in and day out, that's the nature of it.

You know what? You get rewarded for your efforts. If you're in construction or real estate or some of the that's one of the reasons you're in it, because you get rewarded for your efforts. And if that means you work seven days a week, TW you do what it takes. It relates to what you just said, you do what it takes to get the job done.

It doesn't matter what your generation is. You do what it, although we know that maybe that's a factor these days, but you do it. And life balance is great, but it's like Maslow's hierarchy of needs and you just can't life balance. Isn't the number one thing that you put it on the list, right? You gotta eat, you gotta breathe and you gotta eat.

And those have high priorities. 

[00:44:56] Chris Abel: The other, the other side of it with the, uh, you know, my next question for that person who mentioned the, you know, the want the one hour off was okay, well, I have a quick question for you. What, what's the quality of work when they are working and they kind of, oh, I'm like, that's your answer right there.

They weren't ready to do it in the first place. If they weren't doing the job in the first place, then who cares if you give 'em an hour off or eight hours off, but you're gonna have to go find, uh, somebody else. And even going back to the marketing for some of these positions, you know, I've seen some, some of the marketing for some positions at this point, and it's making it seem like a, you know, a dream, a dream.

And I mean, let's just be honest. I mean, there's, you know, this is a whole other conversation, but suicide prevention is a huge thing in, in construction as well. And it's like, you're you got this Dr. Dream job. Here's how it's gonna be. And then someone finally slides into it and it's not what they're like.

There's. I, I feel like the people that I see being successful, the people that are being very realistic with the people that they sit in front of them and say, here, here, here's the deal you're working from this time to this time, we're gonna pay you handsomely, but this is what is expected. And this is rigorous and there's things that.

The, the biggest issue, like I said before is, is just that, that interest, that real interest of having someone walk in who might be a little bit younger to say, you know what, I'm, I'm clean, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm eager. I'm ready to go. And maybe someone who's a little more seasoned going, listen, I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I don't get into trouble.

I'm clean, I'm sober. I'm here I go. I'm ready. And there's just those, those people are at a, um, are at a much smaller, uh, percentage in availability than, you know, let's say, I mean, I'm just throwing number 30, 40 years ago. The, you know, the group that's retiring from that now. 

[00:46:48] Saul Klein: Why do you think that is? 

[00:46:51] Chris Abel: I don't know.

I mean, I was spending my time in this school. I'm not, I'm not completely, completely, I could give different theories, but I don't have any data to back it up. I don't. So you're the data guy. So 

[00:47:01] Saul Klein: is, it is, it's kind of obvious, right? So we're seeing manifestations of things, something. Right. We're experiencing the manifestation of something.

If we examine the data, we could probably figure 

[00:47:12] Chris Abel: it out. Yeah. And why would I, why would I wanna do, uh, you know, why would I wanna put in, you know, you know, 150,000, you know, light fixtures over a three year period when I can, you know, do some sort of TikTok video and go viral. You know, advertising money, you know, that's not California goal.

I don't 

[00:47:33] Saul Klein: play home. That's California goal rush thing. Yet we go viral. But it's like, how many of those people that came to California that didn't go didn't find 

[00:47:39] Andreas Senie: any, well, well now you're talking, setting expectations, right? Yeah. Expectation settings setting, which is across all our industries, uh, marketing, especially in finance.

Uh, you know, if you show up at the, if you show up to work or at the end of the day on that deal and we're in, you shifted the numbers 10%, it doesn't happen. 

[00:47:58] Anna Maria Kowalik: No, a absolutely. And, and, you know, but one thing I've noticed and, uh, looking at most people, okay. We're talking about, you know, those who aren't as hungry, uh, in the, in all senses of the words, quote unquote, or those, uh, you know, who, uh, Who aren't as, um, uh, uh, you know, I'm driven at a loss for words, right?

E exactly. You know, but when you've got honest, hardworking people that are really doing their absolute best, you've got single parents or, uh, uh, parents of young children, uh, who have had to, uh, during this whole COVID period. You know, look after, uh, their children and, you know, and if you have multiple, uh, different grade levels and, and managing their education online.

And, uh, yeah, I know we're a little past that, but I think some people are still having, uh, some PTSD from all of, uh, this, uh, You know, additional, uh, stress and, and, uh, work put out by, um, you know, trying to manage everything at once. And so I, I think, uh, really there's, uh, we just need to account for, and, you know, Chris, you brought up about suicides and whatnot and, and, and I think, uh, mental health issues, uh, just, you know, in general, um, uh, trying to lead people in leadership positions, trying to understand, uh, their, uh, individual employees and understand what they're going through and, and, you know, and.

Can can shed a little bit of light and, you know, maybe cut slack on a certain day, you know, but I know those same people are really willing to give it all, you know, on a different day and, and more than all. And so, you know, it's a question of, uh, just keeping in mind that these things are still going on and we're still suffering some repercussions from, uh, recent times.

And now, you know, uh, we just get over one stress of, uh, health issues and now you're into another stress of inflationary times and, you know, and, and it seems like it's, it's just cavitating and there's no, ah, breather rest in between kind of thing. 

[00:50:30] Andreas Senie: crisis 

[00:50:31] Saul Klein: to crisis feeling. I, I agree that all of that you're, that's all true.

And. There've always been, there's always been crisis to another crisis. We don't have to go back and name them. We've all lived through them. Right. There's all been these stressful periods of time in our life there for, and, and COVID was a very stressful time, but so was world war II. So was the war in Vietnam.

So was the assassination of junk. I mean, there's like, we all have those throughout and it just seems. people are more, need a little bit more codling, not right or wrong. It just seems. And that's what you're saying, that you want people to be a little bit more aware and to give and if it's possible. And, you know, I always thought, and we always taught this, that our most valuable assets were really our employees.

Yes. And we always did the very best we could to understand our, because we put a lot of money into our employees. And as a matter of fact, often our employees couldn't match the salaries that we gave them anywhere else, because they were worth it to us and what they were worth to us. They weren't worth to anybody else because it, right.

So I think that a good employer and a good leader knows that their, and is gonna give a certain amount of space to people just because it's smart business to do it. Mm-hmm . And then if you can add the human touch on top of it, it makes it better. But I think we're always gonna be confronted with, it's not gonna end no.

Gonna keep 

[00:51:58] Andreas Senie: going well. And, and so speaking of the flag of crisis after CRI crisis after crisis, excuse me, what should each of us expect here? And now that we're, we're coming into this recession, what are, what are the expectations from your clients back at the Jersey? What's the expectation? Just your baseline benchmark, mid or midyear.

What's the expectation given COVID given. Everyone else. And then around the room, I'm pleased from the different segments, the industry. 

[00:52:26] Bekah Carlson: So the majority of my clients are really hopeful actually, because uncertainty does breed opportunity. And so nice. So many of my clients are seeing opportunities. I have another, you know, I did yet another pitch earlier this week for launching a retail store, much to a much broader audience have had three or four very important website calls for clients who are ready to expand their businesses.

Because I do think the, the two year kind of hiatus from expansion is now it's now hitting that critical point, that tipping point in their businesses where either they're gonna grow or they're not so, so they're choosing growth. So. Even though we have so much uncertainty, even though we are at a time of difficulty in hiring labor materials, all of those areas, my clients AC overall and across the board are continuing to move forward 

[00:53:21] Andreas Senie: and their expectation is growth.

We're gonna do better than the extra growth is actually growth. Yeah. Despite it all with the right expecta, with the right expectations and things move forward. And that's where, where I sit you're on the broker side, the expectation is fine deals. We expect deal flow either way. You know, the cap rates might be a part.

Maybe CPA will help shore shore that up money wise. But for CPAC there, there were the different grant programs take advantage of we'll see, uh, Anna Maria, your clients, the people you're out talking to the expectation is to close these out. 

[00:53:59] Anna Maria Kowalik: They're very hopeful. In fact, uh, you know, just piggybacking on what Becca said about, um, you know, the now coming out of this post COVID era, they they're wanting to do projects.

They're wanting to go more green. Uh, we're getting more inquiries than ever before. And, um, you know, and, and so hopefully this, this will lead, you know, to that next deal, to that, uh, closing, uh, uh, more deals, uh, this year than before. And so, uh, we are hopeful as well, uh, and seeing the hope in our clients and, and that's a very, uh, important piece.

[00:54:37] Andreas Senie: So it a, so from your two sides, nobody's slowing down, doubling down, speed up. We're all hopeful, despite as you so happily put it labor, let's see supply labor. Did we leave anything out? What is it? Oh, 

[00:54:51] Anna Maria Kowalik:

[00:54:51] Bekah Carlson: left out inflation and, and recession inflation and increasing interest rates at all of those pieces.

[00:54:58] Anna Maria Kowalik: Look, they take longer. This is a trend, 

[00:54:59] Bekah Carlson: but people don't wanna stop doing. How's that 

[00:55:02] Andreas Senie: the people don't well, we can't right. God, the only direction God gives us is forward so, uh, and, and Sal on a more macro level is the, um, expectations change for realtors for even the technology owners you talk with and ice and ice, or we're just still going speed.

Speed ahead. 

[00:55:23] Saul Klein: No, I think, uh, everything is still on track. I think people are hopeful. The EV and you know, real estate guy, user's not gonna be a bubble burst kind of thing. It's all local. So I. I think people are hopeful for the most part. People I talk to that really understand finance. When I ask them how it's gonna be, what they tell me is we've never been here before.

And so we can talk about whatever we wanna talk about, but the fact is we've never. And when they, but they mean by that is we've never been to a point where there was so much quantitative easing and the necessity for quantitative tightening came about at the same time that an increase in interest rates came about.

And so that puts us in a space where we've never been because we have the leftover of 2008 and we have the need of today. And that's a spot that they just can't judge. So while we're hopeful on the one side, on the other side, we're still looking very carefully at the financial markets and what might take place there, cuz we just don't know cuz 

[00:56:19] Andreas Senie: we've never been there before.

I wish I had led with this question 30 minutes ago, cuz you just Flipp me thinking on some things we've never been there before now there, before. Chris, the, from the construction side are the, is the expectation changed? I mean, can they just not finish projects or could you tell me which projects are not finishing and I'll show up?

[00:56:40] Chris Abel: so if you could just pop in, stop in with Anna Marin. Yeah. There you go. Um, well we're seeing, I'm seeing a lot of contractors, especially on the subcontractor level. They're there's, you know, going back to 2008, the ones who have been around or the ones who were around back then, they're kind of like, Hey, here we go again.

You know? And they have that they're there's no, there's no lack of stress and there's no lack of ups and downs and ebbs and flows when it comes to any industry. And especially in the construction industry. So there's still an idea of hope. I mean, I see a lot of the contractors starting to share, share labor when they can a little bit more working together.

Um, I see some of the older, uh, generation kind of passing it down to, to the kids or passing it down to the next generation with the idea of the next generation, understanding that they need to run the business a little bit differently. I'm seeing a lot of different mergers I'm seeing, um, you know, companies let go of maybe one side of what they do, but holding onto, you know, another side that they can share their bread and butter.

So, I mean, you know, I guess at the end of the day, we'll get through it and, you know, just gotta kind of take everything as it comes and, uh, you know, and just kind of keep riding along. You know, I've had very few companies that I deal with that have turned around and say, you know what, we're out, we're selling and we're, we're done.

Um, And then I've had others that have found ways to kind of sell off, you know, parts of their business, if they need to. And I've seen others, like I said, they're, they're sharing labor. The nice thing is there's a lot of, even though there is a shortage, there are a lot of people going into apprenticeship programs.

The problem is the number is so high that it's, it's estimates take about 14 years to, to train the skilled trades people that can handle, you know, the, the 650,000 plus spots that are open, but you gotta start somewhere. So, and you can't just keep hammering that number into people's heads over and over and over again, you're not just gonna flip a coin to Sal's point.

You know, this isn't gonna happen overnight either. You know, it's not gonna be an overnight thing where all of a sudden we're like, all right, we're good. Found, found, found, found a, you know, half a million last night. We're, we're good to go. it's just, it is what it is. So just hanging in there, everyone's hanging in there and I'll just keep trying to solve problems for the company.

As I work with. 

[00:58:54] Andreas Senie: Hm, grinding, grinding it out for lack. Well, it's, I, I find that to be the right term, uh, onward and upward and moving through through the basics. Uh, it sounds like precision and, and clearing the noise as always is, is really selling off of different, different functions is interesting, cuz that goes back to my point about being specialists, not generalists.

Uh, so I like that one. I do appreciate that. I do wanna mention to our listeners, I, we got to the top of the hour quite quickly here, um, in person events, uh, Siri tech, New York is coming in October also. Uh, I CSC Chicago, uh, for sir tech because you've tuned in to listen to me, speak to listen to my great host and wonderful friends.

Uh, talk about their unique sides of the business. We have 20% off for anyone looking to sign up exclusive does in partnership with CRA tech. It's a great in place gathering where you're gonna hear from both VCs and PropTech companies, PropTech being Preco and all the others, all this tech, everyone alludes to on this call, but we never go in deep about it.

Uh, cuz that's not what the goal is for. So do check that out. Uh, and I want to thank Rebecca and Maria, Chris Saul for coming, joining, sharing what you know, putting up with my microphone issues at times. I think the audio was great this month. Not Rebecca, a little too good on my end. I'm hearing everything.

Uh, that being said, I wanna thank our listeners and. Mr. Mendoza, our producer, as he leads us out, please, don't forget to check us out on YouTube, LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, like rate review us and join us not just next month as scheduled, but, uh, third week of this month, we're gonna talk all things debt with inland capital.

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It really does help guys. I wanna thank you, Mr. Mendoza. You wanna lead us out here?