Roundtable: Technology, Marketing, Brokerage, Government Policy, Capital, Construction & Cyber Security in Real Estate with Andreas Senie


April 08, 2022 Andreas Senie Season 4 Episode 2
THE MACRO TRENDS FOR 2022, WHAT DEVELOPMENT OPPORTUNITIES ARE OUT THERE, AND HOW TO BEST POSITION YOUR REAL ESTATE BUSINESS FOR THE YEAR Roundtable: Technology, Marketing, Brokerage, Government Policy, Capital, Construction & Cyber Security in Real Estate with Andreas Senie
More Info Roundtable: Technology, Marketing, Brokerage, Government Policy, Capital, Construction & Cyber Security in Real Estate with Andreas Senie
Apr 08, 2022 Season 4 Episode 2
Andreas Senie

Join The Roundtable as we discuss real estate trends across Office, Retail, Industrial, Hospitality, and mixed-use for Q1 of 2022 and learn how to position yourself for success this year and what is happening across technology, construction, CPACE financing, marketing, and cyber security.

This month's RoundTable included:

Andreas Senie, Host, Founder CRECollaborative
Non Profit & For Profit Business Technology Transformation Champion, CRETech Thought Leader, Founder & Brokerage Owner

Saul Klein, Realtor Emeritus, Data Advocate & Futurist, Original Real Estate Internet Evangelist,  Executive Editor Realty Times

Chris Abel, Membership Director 
Associated Builders & Contractors Association 
CT Chapter

Rebekah Carlson, Founder & CEO Carlson Integrated,
Past President NICAR Association, Brokerage Owner

Anna Maria Kowalik, SVP – Director Business Development Inland Green Capital LLC, a capital provider for commercial C-PACE projects and part of The Inland Real Estate Group of Companies, Inc.

Professor Darren Hayes CEO Code Detectives, Professor Pace University Cyber Security Specialist 

Your all in one comprehensive view of what is happening across the real estate industry -- straight from some of the industry's earliest technology adopters and foremost experts. Join us live at 6 PM EST on the 1st Thursday of each month, across all major social media channels and wherever you get your podcasts. This three-part show consists of:

Part I: Introductions and what's new for each panelist and the business sector
Part II: Sector Focus on the past month's most prominent news and paradigm shifts
Part III: What does all this mean for real estate businesses, and what you can do for the next 30 days

Learn more at 

#datadrivenbusiness #businessmanagement #commercialrealestate #crecollaborator

Show Notes Transcript

Join The Roundtable as we discuss real estate trends across Office, Retail, Industrial, Hospitality, and mixed-use for Q1 of 2022 and learn how to position yourself for success this year and what is happening across technology, construction, CPACE financing, marketing, and cyber security.

This month's RoundTable included:

Andreas Senie, Host, Founder CRECollaborative
Non Profit & For Profit Business Technology Transformation Champion, CRETech Thought Leader, Founder & Brokerage Owner

Saul Klein, Realtor Emeritus, Data Advocate & Futurist, Original Real Estate Internet Evangelist,  Executive Editor Realty Times

Chris Abel, Membership Director 
Associated Builders & Contractors Association 
CT Chapter

Rebekah Carlson, Founder & CEO Carlson Integrated,
Past President NICAR Association, Brokerage Owner

Anna Maria Kowalik, SVP – Director Business Development Inland Green Capital LLC, a capital provider for commercial C-PACE projects and part of The Inland Real Estate Group of Companies, Inc.

Professor Darren Hayes CEO Code Detectives, Professor Pace University Cyber Security Specialist 

Your all in one comprehensive view of what is happening across the real estate industry -- straight from some of the industry's earliest technology adopters and foremost experts. Join us live at 6 PM EST on the 1st Thursday of each month, across all major social media channels and wherever you get your podcasts. This three-part show consists of:

Part I: Introductions and what's new for each panelist and the business sector
Part II: Sector Focus on the past month's most prominent news and paradigm shifts
Part III: What does all this mean for real estate businesses, and what you can do for the next 30 days

Learn more at 

#datadrivenbusiness #businessmanagement #commercialrealestate #crecollaborator


[00:00:00] Andreas Senie: welcome back this month, real estate round table. You're all in one comprehensive view of what's happening across the real estate industry, straight from some of the industries experts in technology, marketing, capital construction, cyber security, institutional real estate, as always. It is a three part show introductions and what's new for each of our round table hosts and their respective sectors followed by the biggest trends.

Moving the industry paradigm shifts, a good friend, Saul likes to always talk about. And what does it mean for your real estate businesses and which you can do for the next 30 days? I'm Andrea Senie, founder of CRE collaborative brokerage owner and technology growth strategist for both nonprofit and for-profit sector.

Joining me this month. None other than Saul Kline, father technology, and internet adoption in the real estate industry. And generally recognized as a technology pioneer Saul. Welcome. Did I do enough justice on your intro? I think we did more than enough. Pardon my delay there? I had a bit of feedback.

Seoul was also the creator of one of the first online real estate communities. Real talk first developed by the national association of realtors in 1995. And for those that don't know, originally the Rin network as part of the team that pioneered what is known as today as internet listings, really also joining us, Rebecca Carlson, president and CEO of Carlson.

Past president Nightcore association. Rebecca is the foremost expert I turn to for all things marketing. In addition to running her brokers there in Chicago that got anything to add on, on your intro this month. Uh, 

[00:02:00] Bekah Carlson: it's been, it's great to be here, Andreas. And I would like to add that Nightcore has been really busy and really active and.

By way of a wonderful associations of knowing other people. I, we actually had as a guest at our big luncheon today and Maria. 

[00:02:20] Andreas Senie: So if you're going to steal my introduction, man, Maria. Okay. Let's let's go ahead and do it. So Anna Maria Wallick responsible for business development and in deal origination that EnLink green capital LLC with over 25 years experience in commercial real estate and property management.

Welcome back to your second show in. 

[00:02:41] Anna Maria Kowalik: It's great to be here and I'm glad to be among all these illustrious people here. This is so exciting. 

[00:02:47] Andreas Senie: It's certainly my favorite. Uh, my favorite segment of the month, it's talking with you guys and really getting down deep into the industry, uh, from this 360 perspective, also joining us freshly back from the UK professor, Darren Hayes, C O of code detects code detectives, and one of the top 10 forensic computer scientists in the us frequently on television, including Bloomberg, Bloomberg MSPC and others.

Darren welcome. Did I miss anything on your intro as we shift to this new paradigm? Not quite a paradigm solve, but we'll get to that. 

[00:03:23] Darren Hayes: No, that's a great intro. Thank you so much. Great to be here with everyone again 

[00:03:28] Andreas Senie: for the short term, as I know you're flying out again, we're going to start to push you towards the international.

For this conversation, given your travel. And lastly, but certainly not least Chris Abell, a membership director at the Connecticut associated builders and contractors responsible for development in all things construction released at the pulse of construction in the Northeast, from my neck of the woods, Chris.

Nice to see you welcome back. Anything I missed there? 

[00:03:55] Chris Able: No, not at all. She's calling back. Maria said this illustrious group and I was like, oh, I must be on the wrong to stick around for at least an hour. So, 

[00:04:08] Andreas Senie: um, no, no, no, truly a great show and welcome everyone. This show is growing and we could not, I could not be more excited to be a part of it.

I hope you feel the same. I know you feel the same. You keep showing up, putting up with me every hour, every hour for one hour a month. So as the second part of the show after introductions, We'll go around the room and talk about what moved us this month, uh, in our industry, in our exact sec sector. And I'm going to kick it off with some macro trends, just to keep the conversation going as far as outlook for real estate or JLL, others callers have all put out reports.

Tech companies are signaling that return to offices. Office occupancy has been growing since January multifamily, thriving, industrial, thriving. Although there was a lot of changes with the social distancing. All of that is, uh, as per one of our very early shows, all of that is now prescribed. We have a book on how to handle things.

So business for all intensive purposes in 2022 is returning to normal. Even the hotel sector is reporting that. Thanks to the extra money in the savings account of consumers and the conference events coming up this year, they're seeing a full recovery. So my biggest question on what moves the industry this month is how many of the pandemic changes in your own sectors, such as zoom are staying or going.

And I'm going to go from left to right. I assume, unlike zoom we're in the same scheme saw Europe first. How's your carwash. It's famous. I'm getting it there. Haley's car. Oh, 

[00:05:43] Saul Klein: I should be doing great. And that always in January, February, we get a little bit of rain. It slows. But I can always tell how well it does by the checks.

Should I get every month? So it's doing much better. And I'm here in San Diego. Median price of a home is about 830,000 average market times about 19 days. Um, something that, that struck me to talk about COVID, uh, by that actually gotten out of the house a little bit over the last week. And one of the things I noticed is the wines going into the shopping center areas, the traffic, and it just really surprised me.

I had to go down and I got a new iPhone, and I thought that the shopping center would be, you know, there wouldn't be anybody there was in the middle of the week and it was packed, you know, like where you have to sit through a light twice before you can get across. So I was really surprised. And then driving home noticed the long lines, uh, all coming off of one ramp going onto another.

So I think, uh, people are excited to be out and about like, Because again, I didn't expect to see that much activity the market here in 19 days. That's pretty good. That's a lot slower than it had been. So things, interest rates are on the rise, but that doesn't spell necessarily what people think it does.

I remember in 19 78, 19 79, 19 80 is interest rates rose to like 18% people. Didn't stop. And, uh, we had not that many pregnant shortage of properties available. I remember taking somebody out and he didn't even go into the property. Couldn't get into the property. And he stood outside the kitchen window and jumped up and looked in the window to kind of get a look.

And then we wrote an offer on the property. So a property available man were 7 million nationwide and a delight and equity assets, real estate, great thing to, to own. When there's inflation, what are you going to do? You're going to sell your real estate, take your cash and put it in the bank. And I don't know, where are you going to put it to get that kind of return?

So when you've got inflation, which we've got interest rates on the rise, you might think that, uh, it would slow the market down and eventually it will, but it hasn't yet. 

[00:07:44] Andreas Senie: Well, I'd love to hear it from the west coast as I sit here on the east coast, for those that don't know. And Rebecca, you said right in the middle, so you're perfect in order.

Uh, how are things going in the marketing world, brokerage world out there in Chicago? 

[00:07:58] Saul Klein: So 

[00:07:58] Bekah Carlson: things are really busy. So we're seeing a huge uptick in activity. I would like to say that the Chicago weather has started to improve. I'm not entirely sure that's true. It's actually pretty nasty out here.

Weather-wise but you're starting to see kind of the, the stationery elements. And we do have a seasonality to business here in Chicago. People kind of don't leave and do anything in January and February and March and April. It really does traditionally pick up. And we're seeing that many, many more events, many more in-person opportunities, which of course were quiet for two years.

So it's been most interesting for me to see the adaptation to that because. There is a process that people go through, you know, the first time they're out there super chatty, because they haven't really had an in-person thing. We all kind of get used to acclimating back to those back to those situations, but there's an avid interest in networking and yet also a protection of, of that home life balance.

So we're seeing maybe lower attendance, but the folks who are at events are really excited to be there. And it's simply a matter of acclimating to, from nobody's ready quite to go, you know, zero to 60 miles an hour. Everybody kind of wants to go like 30, 45 miles an hour as they really ramp up. And we are definitely seeing increased conferences, events, increased, again, opportunities for people to get together.

And the conversation right now is like, it used to be it's all ICSE Vegas. 

[00:09:30] Andreas Senie: Just cause you, you mentioned earlier when you saw, when Anna Maria spoke at your Nightcore vent earlier, did you guys continue to do those, those tags that said, Hey, I'll shake your hand and, or I will, you know, I'm comfortable doing X, Y, Z, or is that gone?

Because you had mentioned that in an early in shell where you gone love it. Okay. Typically 

[00:09:50] Bekah Carlson: it took us a long time. We were the 42nd state to remove masks. So we are, I would say in a sense behind 41 states in, in this re-entry phase 

[00:10:02] Andreas Senie: and everybody's excited as, as they should be business as usual, or I hope business as usual, which leads to me, always Chris Abel, with our global supply chain shortages still.

Out there. Right? Chris Walken, what's going on on the construction sector. I just saw Chris at his annual membership dinner, uh, for his association, what an amazing group of people. And I'm not going to tell the jokes they told. But 

[00:10:28] Chris Able: imagine. Yeah. Thank you for coming out. Oh, that was, it was, it was a good time.

It was a no masks like everyone. No, no, not with our group. That's been that way for a while, to be honest with you. But, um, to kind of piggyback off of Becca what you were saying, one thing I've definitely noticed with the fence, um, that I've been involved with the, the show rates for the events are way higher.

So the people who are signing up and the people who are coming out, um, that the amount of name tags that are kind of left on the, on the registration table at the end of the night is definitely a lot lower. And there's, you know, it might be the swap ends. Hey, you know, you know, this person's our comments, so this person's coming in their place, but the show rates are higher.

People are basically making their commitment, like I'm going, I'm going to this event. So, uh, it's been really, really nice. Um, Yeah. As far as what, some of the stuff that I've seen, I've actually taken a few calls from, um, some of the contractors, I deal with the deal predominantly on the commercial side, but over the past month, month and a half, I've gotten about three calls from different contractors that are starting to move towards the residential side of things because their commercial side is slow and they're trying to get into more of the luxury home market.

And they understand that some of the projects and the project management and how they're going about things are very similar to a commercial build in some of the mechanical side of things and electrical sides are, um, I'm not gonna lie maybe one or two that might be in for a little bit of a rude awakening and there's gotta be some growing pains, but, um, it's, it's interesting.

It's interesting to see them shifting in that direction. Um, and it's partially to the supply chain stuff is still there. Uh, the biggest thing going on in our industry, Just like anywhere else's licensed traits, people that has not changed that has increased, they just can't find it. There's the, not with a license.

And then in here in Connecticut, we have such a ratio relief issue that, um, their, their hands are tied in regards to getting, uh, the apprentices. Also, they just can't, they don't have enough licensed people to, to, to, to take on the apprentices. Um, but other than that, I mean, all good. It's nice to see everybody out.

It's nice to see everybody making, uh, making moves. And then the other thing we're seeing a lot here in, uh, you know, in Connecticut is, um, a lot of the cannabis facilities are starting to move forward. Now that legislation is through. So I'm seeing a lot getting, I'm fielding a lot of questions about those.

Um, and then a lot of injuries you were talking about the hotels, some of the mixed use buildings that have been bought recently. Where they weren't really talking about implementing housing or implementing maybe a smaller version of the hotel that was originally in a couple of these places. Uh, let's say like, uh, the there's a spot in Cromwell.

They're starting to reconsider what they're going to build out because they're starting to see people kind of coming out of the woodwork and traveling and you know, the need is there. The 

[00:13:31] Andreas Senie: demand 

[00:13:31] Chris Able: is back. Yeah. Compete, compete for that conference. Those, those conferences that are going to come in the area.

I'm sure. It's interesting. It's interesting. It's, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a fun time. I, and I like what's going on with the weather, uh, starting to turn, I just think it's going to be a good, good spring and summer full of challenges. It's 

[00:13:51] Andreas Senie: certainly exciting and speaking, speaking of unspoken demand, or maybe more spoken demand now with the government getting on board commitment to net zero emissions and a Maria second show see pays for all those that don't know how to get green with your buildings and get some cheap capital while you're at it.

Not a bad place to be. Also in Chicago, Illinois, Illinois, for our new listeners, 

[00:14:16] Anna Maria Kowalik: I would just echo what all my predecessors here said. Um, you know, uh, one night my husband and I decided to go out for dinner and my son has a small neighborhood, Italian restaurant. And, and so we went and we had to wait. Uh, it was fully packed.

It was, it was like the first weekend, I think, after things opened up and it was just incredible. I have people have all this pent up energy now to get out there. And speaking of energy, um, actually, uh, ESG is hotter than ever. I mean, that is, what's driving everything today. Um, here locally. The topic of ESG itself is just huge and growing.

And, um, everybody's, you know, trying to analyze where they are in the scope of things and, and how they can do better. And, and certainly, you know, the commercial property assessed, clean energy financing, uh, long, long words, but, uh, the short acronym C pace, um, certainly can, you know, help with all of that.

And, uh, Chris, you know, in helping get some of those, uh, electrical, uh, projects and whatnot, uh, off the ground and to the finish line, um, we've seen a tremendous growth, uh, over this quarter, this last quarter, just, uh, keep progressing and getting bigger and bigger snowballing. Totally. And, um, And now, you know, a good problem to handle, uh, you know, we've got a lot of business almost more than we can handle, which is awesome.

And so putting in a few, little longer hours and whatnot to make it work, but, you know, customer service is first and foremost. And, uh, um, it's just good to see things really, really picking up lots of new construction. Believe it, or not just site supply issues. Uh, these projects may take longer of course, but, um, you know, certainly they're happening and, uh, lots of great retrofit and a lot of people now that S recs are back here in Illinois.

For solar projects, the incentives, uh, but you know, of course everything has an expiration. And so, uh, on a sliding scale basis, beginning this year, you know, are going to be less offerings as the years go on. But, uh, you know, to do a project this year and get things done, I can see where a lot of the uptick is coming from that as well.

So, uh, all in all positive 

[00:17:06] Saul Klein: scenario, 

[00:17:07] Andreas Senie: love to hear it as, and for those that don't know, ESG, environmentally, environmental, social governance, correct. Which going with the trend of the generational shift, that's undeniable impact, giving impact, living profit and impact all works together. Speaking of profit impact and all working together, I guess that leads quite well in.

Professor, Darren Hayes, all things cyber or the interconnected world, the IOT of things we'll come back from the UK. What's going on in your space. How are things at pace and otherwise the cyber world? 

[00:17:42] Darren Hayes: Yeah. It thinks things are really good personally. And, uh, I feel a little bit bad because everybody's been talking about spring and summer and lots of positive things.

Um, and you know, I see a lot of things in the cyber world that are unfortunately, um, a little disturbing. Yeah. Um, well, let's start with the good, the good news is that a lot of these cyber conferences, digital friends at conferences, you know, are back on track. They're in-person um, a lot of that is. It's networking that that's a value because you get to talk offline with people about what trends that they're seeing and that kind of thing.

So that's really, really positive. Um, the big, you know, where I've become a lot more active recently over the past few months, uh, is in the area of risk and compliance, um, because of new privacy legislation on the state level, there's a lot more interest in, in, um, you know, what's the difference between compliance versus cyber security?

Are they the same? And they're actually very, very different, but, um, you know, how do you be compliant and, you know, become more robust in terms of cyber security. So, so lots of good things happening in that area. And that's keeping me very, very busy, um, The concern now for the bad news, the concern is really what's going on with Ukraine and the types of cyber attacks that are, that are happening right now.

Um, I don't know whether you've, you've seen the news and in terms of, you know, many us soldiers, veterans going over to Ukraine to support the fight against Russia. And, you know, they, the Russians have been using tactics to identify, you know, cell phone signals associated with these us Pfizers to target them, um, which has been quite disturbing.

Um, the, the cyber attacks have been escalated on quite a number of facilities, you know, including energy companies. We know the Russian capabilities a number of years ago. The black energy malware, which, you know, one piece of code that took out power to over 700,000 Ukrainians. So, so there's always that threat.

Um, but what I'm hearing a lot about is government working with corporations, um, to build up their defenses and some of the rhetoric that's been coming out of Putin recently, um, and, you know, retribution and revenge for, uh, supporting Ukraine. You know, they feel that this, this kind of, uh, they may be the target of, of increased attacks, uh, cyber attacks.

And so resiliency is a big, big topic right now in the cyber world, critical infrastructure and government working with corporations to improve their security, the other threats as well, that that be not there is relation to run. Because when you have the sanctions and you have the inability to use with the swift banking system and, you know, ransomware becomes increasingly important and holding companies around some and getting cryptocurrency that you can easily exchange into dollars or whatever currency you want is, uh, is a growing concern out there.

So wish I had better news. Uh, I am happy about spring by the way,

but it's not all bad. 

[00:21:22] Andreas Senie: Right. And, um, and then thoughts and prayers, certainly out to the people fighting in Ukraine for everything that all that is good. And just depending on what side and how you sit here, it's I, I think there's probably back to it a very early episode with Saul, where it was, you know, pay attention to where, what the regulator's doing, pay attention to what government's doing, what they're doing today will affect you.

Well tomorrow's here. These things have started to change. Its skin has come up more and more. I was just at the ABC, a word center, membership dinner, and Darren, to your point, they were talking about this risk and compliance and I never had it for my life for the life of me would think that, you know, the guys on the ground pouring concrete would be talking about risk and compliance in a, in a, uh, in a high Def way in a technology way, computers, jacket.

I was stunned at what? Good. Well, yeah, it's very good. Let me see how we can talk more on this because I'm unprepared wildly. Aren't prepared. Darren's not here, but they were talking about it. So to my friends at the who foundation, if those of you that want to give, please do give who foundation what's going on in Ukraine is of the utmost importance because it does affect us.

Everything that happens there affects us here. Supply shortages, the ways, you know, the global chip shortages, still a huge problem as any manufacturer. They just don't have what they need to build, hopefully, um, outside of COVID, which is huge as we returned to the new normal, uh, there'll be a lot of lessons learned we can take from this and resilience.

We can build to your point again, Darren, in general, speaking of that resilience, uh, I know California is incredibly resilient as a Chicago, as Connecticut, as New York, all of our respective areas, we've got these programs, we're doing these things, everything we can do to help. I am sad that those, uh, that's going there are being treated the way they're treated, especially as, uh, fortunes of mercenaries on as volunteers to help in aid and otherwise.

But I don't want to go too deep there cause it's a sad topic, but one that I'm sure we're all familiar with. So again, thoughts and prayers to that area. To the regulatory area of the U S and how we can build back better. I think that's a political slogan, so don't tag me there. So I always turn to you here.

What's, what's changing in California. What's finally on the ground there as we come into 2022. Yeah. So 

[00:23:52] Saul Klein: at first talk about paradigm shifts at the highest level. Uh, I think we're seeing, uh, land use policies and it's important, and it's major land use part of the way that we treated our real estate in the past.

It's not going to be the same. Walkability is big, and we've got this housing shortage in the United States about 7 million units short. And in California, recently, a bill was passed to allow just about on every residential property. Uh, the, the ability to build an accessory dwelling. And so now every sink, every single lot, you can build another property on.

And so we looked at affordability, major issue, nationwide major issue in, in California. And what's going to happen with affordability while the land you think about, you've got a piece of land and you build a building. As soon as you build a building, you start using it. And it starts to depreciate, not theoretical depreciation, but it starts to wear out.

And so as that building wears out, nonetheless, the value. Right overall. So that means the land values, uh, increasing. And if we want to make housing more affordable, one of the things we have to do is allow more units to be built on the existing land. And that's exactly what's taken place in California.

And I won't, I won't happen overnight. Everybody's not going to build a second unit on their property. That's gonna to take 50 years, right. Seventy-five years before. And it's going to change neighborhoods. And walkability is a big issue here in San Diego and across the state. I think across the country, what we're seeing is for, uh, environmentally, for social justice, for all of these things that everybody's interested in.

And we're seeing this change in land use policy and more density, higher density in San Diego, we just, just the other day, some of it's crazy is they want to, uh, want to eliminate driving and maybe not eliminate it, but reduce it somewhat. So there's a lot of money spent around giving people. Bonuses density bonuses.

If they build apartment buildings around major transportation, hubs, there's money been allocated for that kind of interesting here the other day, I saw a major, uh, neighborhood in San Diego. The city came out overnight, changed the striping on the street and didn't tell anybody. And so now what we've got, and it was kind of interesting in a certain part of town.

We've got a street. Think about this. You look at this two way street, and now what it is is first you have parking on each side, then you have a bike lane next to the parking on each side. And instead of two lanes, you've got one lane, but it's two way. And so imagine now that's pretty like people are texting on their phone, Regine, how that's going to play out now we're that have people woke up in the morning and they saw this and it's on all the news and people are talking about in the mirror and San Diego admitted that they didn't do a very good job talking about it, but he said it's being done in other places.

You'll get. And it's like a big truck coming your way. We're going to fall into the bike lane where you got to pull into the one, right. One lane for two way traffic bike lanes, and then parking. And again, it's to drive people away from driving to get more people to walk or use other means of transportation, public transportation.

Then that leads to this idea of higher density and walkable neighborhoods, where there doesn't have to be as much, um, as much driving. Uh, in some cases you might even see freeway start to disappear. 

[00:27:12] Andreas Senie: So literally applying red tape to my daily commute, I'm going to make it so difficult to get that

[00:27:21] Saul Klein: so expensive 

[00:27:24] Andreas Senie: to 

[00:27:26] Saul Klein: buy more than the, than the bigger, right. There's those gasoline prices escalate, but it's going to force people into mass transit. And that's the idea because if there's less driving, it's better for the environment. That's right. All these positive. That who cares if it's going to be more red tape 

[00:27:39] Andreas Senie: for you?

Uh, well, I'm thinking more on the, the, the infrastructure costs of all the accidents and, and just policing those areas. I couldn't imagine. Well, and I haven't driven in London. Some of you may have, I can do it. I know I couldn't do it. You know, I've been to Indiana and all these other places, I just, you know, my mind works XYZ.

I don't need it to go backwards. Um, so that's gotta be tough going from one way to two way in your space. And, but it does, I talked about it. Go ahead. Sorry. It was no, 

[00:28:11] Darren Hayes: I was going to say when I was in London, can you hear me? Yeah, yeah, no, it's just going to say what w when I was in London, uh, it was interesting because first of all, you know, carbon emissions and becoming greener and more sustainable, it's not a party thing.

It's not really a political thing. It's just kind of like. And, and, and many European countries, it is it's, it's not, you know, right versus left or blue versus red or anything like that. The other thing that's interesting is that they actually create real incentives for people. So, you know, if you have, first of all, they're cutting out all the diesel cars, which were a big thing over there.

Um, but also any car that runs on gasoline, you know, you're gonna have to pay 12 pounds a day. If you live in London and then coming into London, you're going to have to pay a toll. However, if you buy an electric vehicle, you don't have to pay anything. And, you know, I think it's a great idea that if you create an incentive where people don't have to pay toll, you know, if they have an electric bill.

You know, that's a real incentive that people should think about, you know? 

[00:29:20] Andreas Senie: Well, I mean, that's how C pace was formed. Right. And was getting people to, to pay attention 

[00:29:24] Anna Maria Kowalik: well, to pay attention to, uh, it basic, the basic tenants of it is, are two. Um, Improve aging building stock. And, and that was the primary. Uh, so let's take old buildings, let's improve them, make them more energy efficient, bring them into the 21st century and beyond, and, and that kind of thing.

Uh, it's, it's grown and developed into a lot of different, uh, other things as well. So, uh, while someone's doing a solar project, they can, uh, improve their Avi charging infrastructure on their property and, uh, Illinois probably, uh, for, for as much as it lags behind sometimes. And w we're Illinoisans, we can joke about it, but, uh, but we are first.

In, uh, putting some legislation in, uh, regarding, uh, electrical vehicles and, and, uh, the promotion of programs, uh, you know, to promote its growth. And, um, and so, uh, yes, see pace, you know, does finance those kinds of things as well. And so, uh, it's an ever evolving, uh, area because, uh, it's all evolving around us.

And so, uh, that this is a great discussion to have 

[00:30:52] Andreas Senie: well, and to me, so I think back on higher density conversations that would come from a family developers, and it's always a hard conversation to have with any municipality, any town and he, and his zoning board, they don't want it. The neighbors don't want it.

I don't want to do my way. I don't want to see that Evie charging station. Let's not even go there. I don't want to see the two, two story, four story affordable apartment go up. And now it seems that all the. Globally. We all accept that we have to get to net zero carbon emissions because it's the right thing to do.

You're not parking a Tesla in my driveway. So that's, that's a wash for me at the moment. Um, but even in the real estate side, specifically in the construction side, the CPS program is part of the incentive. It's going to get help get us, but it's a little like, uh, affordable housing. There are, there are rules there to push you over to get you in the right direction, but it's not quite so, so easy as let's say, going back to SOL's, uh, earliest point in an earlier show of here's my car.

Here's my, my carwash pull in, pull out, pay me it's easy built. And Andy, it was approved by right? No barriers. Are there, are there regularly, there are hurdles to come. 

[00:32:11] Saul Klein: Yes. You know, they say something about that. It's so such this NIMBY ism. Right. And so not only do we have zoning that limits. Rights and property.

And so on our car wash was built there. Wasn't built zoned commercial, and then you could build on it because it was zoned commercial. And now it doesn't matter almost what it's own. The neighbors can all get together and they can nix you. And, and so that you're right, there's these obstacles, but you've got this other side growing now and it's a YIMBY movement, right?

Yes. In my backyard where people realize that these things are gonna take place, the government's pushing it, there's money to fund it. And it's going to keep moving in that direction. And we can't sustain the way we've developed real estate over the years where you drive till you qualify, right. He pushing out, pushing out, pushing out and you walk around any city and you'll see that we can't take care of the garbage we, the freeways are.

They can't cut the weeds down the police and fire protection. It's too expensive to reach out. And so you really need to start to bring it back in. And then there are all those other benefits as you start to bring it back in. And he talked to the millennials, we talked to certain groups of people generationally.

They liked this idea. Yeah, right. So there are obstacles, but that'll probably change over time. 


[00:33:21] Andreas Senie: and 

[00:33:21] Bekah Carlson: I wanted to jump in here because the adaptive reuse of mall properties has spurred so much more interest, especially as I see in the suburbs where communities are starting to understand that they are not going to have a retail shopping mall, that mall has to be redeveloped or they're losing everything.

And those are almost always adding multi-family components because that density piece is really highest and best use for the property. So what matters best for the property? I love that municipalities are starting to tug to get it because those conversations have been hard for so many years. And now because of their, they were losing the tax base and they're starting to say, okay.

And there are two that I can think of specifically in my local area, that it's really fun to watch what they're doing and to learn about it and RD equipping with. Electric vehicle charging stations. I went to a breakfast with a colleague last week where we left his car at the mall, the charge. I don't have an electric vehicle, but he does.

It was so easy. He like literally plugged it in and went to breakfast, came out his car was charged. He could do all of his traveling for the day. 

[00:34:29] Anna Maria Kowalik: It's really useful. Once people start 

[00:34:32] Bekah Carlson: acclimating to building new experiences, new patterns, and re kind of revitalizing their own perspective of what that property is or has been historically.

[00:34:45] Andreas Senie: On the page that was there to stay. 

[00:34:51] Chris Able: I remember a few, uh, several months ago, uh, I mentioned how, um, one of the consultants in our area, you know, there some affordable housing going up and, you know, multi-family units going up. And one of the consultants for the construction construction company basically stepped in.

And, and I remember seeing the pictures of video of basically having basically inviting the neighborhood. We're going to take a walk. We're going to walk, we're going to walk and we're going to talk about this and we're going to kind of address any issues you might have. And, um, it kind of turned into to Saul's point kind of that UMB type movement where it's like, wait a second.

This is it's happening one way or another. Let's address it right off the bat, but come to find out, um, recently I've, you know, and I think with the weather kind of turning around and might see more of it, but I've, I have seen, um, a couple more of these type of situations and one of them is surrounding, you know, one of the, one of the mall situations also where they're kind of come on out, let's walk around, let's figure out what's going to go on.

Let's see what your, your, you know, you're going to be paying for see would, and kind of get it, get everything out there. Cause, um, it all kind of ties in also called months ago. Remember we were talking about contractors and, and communities just with everything going on with supply chain issues and all the issues going on.

Um, Anna Maria mentioned. Right there, right at the jump building's going to happen. It might take longer, you have these projects going, but it seems that now it's kind of like, all right, we've gone through all of the, uh, the, the back and forth, back and forth to try to figure this out. We all know what we're facing.

So I see a lot of the contractors, um, substance GCs working together saying, we're going to get this done. It is going to take a little bit longer, but we're getting there because I think they're just starting to see the movement and same thing with the communities in the, uh, in the, in the, in the builders that are, that are turning some of these, these malls and some of these places around, I also have a feeling that some of the mall stuff is also somewhat generational.

Like I think it would be pretty cool to if I lived in a town near the mall, you staying out with to kind of see how that is. So it's a Becker's point. See how that's going to transform in a place that. Uh, there's so many places we drive by no matter where we live, that we go, that used to be that that used to be that I, my wife and I joke all the time, where are we met this, that, and the other thing they're, they're gone, they're gone.

They've all been leveled and re to see something, get repurposed in your own community that you kind of might've grown up around or brought your kids to. It's something to be said about that. It's, it's unique. It's a unique 

[00:37:27] Andreas Senie: thing. Well, and what I'm, what I'm hearing is it's happening. And, uh, is a great tool for those.

Who've never heard of it. The, what the data shows is not only as it's happening, that people in general are shifting their, they have shifted post pandemic. Their buying patterns are buying more. They're traveling further. They're buying certain things online. So to solemn back is pointing out. We've got to make some shifts here because that's going to be Chris to your point.

It's it's vacant space. Those tenants, that traffic, the health of them. I'll speak to one locally here. And that was in default. When the pandemic started, it's getting better. Yes. People are in an urge to go out, but the actual health of the mall, the tenant mix has declined. So if we were to tear that down and take that 20 acres, because it's got a bit of land with it, cause it was a mall, all the residential area, when they built it, they had to give plenty back and turn it into a destination, tourist attraction, something of that nature, a mixed use development in the true nature, mixed use village.

How great would that be? Would it be great? Not sure we can. Um, although I'm not sure we can afford it yet. Let's show the financial, the lineup to buy it because that mall owner is still, still is, is doing very well. It's one of the best in the country. That's not five, but we're getting there and saw, I mean, you talked two shows ago about rezoning or up zoning for.

Uh, carwash. Are you considering making that change? Are you going to, yeah. 

[00:39:04] Saul Klein: Great. That's a great question for me because on Adams avenue, which is where our car wash is located, which is a walkable neighborhood, it was kind of a depressed part of town 40 years ago, but through revitalization efforts and through money from the federal road and block grant financing, it's really an up and coming area.

And the Millie's pizza about four blocks down from the carwash and an adjacent property about the size of our carwash property, uh, would hold it. And they're gonna build 175 units on that piece of property, 175 units and a hundred parking places. So a 

[00:39:40] Andreas Senie: hundred cars wash 

[00:39:42] Saul Klein: cars, a lot more population. So we're holding out on the carwash property, 300 units.

It's the best use when there's going to be some numbers and you've got to provide so much affordable housing, but there's going to be some number of wins. We'll say heck with the cash. Uh, you know, I'm 73, let's just go ahead and sell it and build three. However many took right down the street on hundred 75 units and only a hundred parking 

[00:40:08] Andreas Senie: place.

Oh, well, here in Aaron Shelvin and I moved here a few months ago, Sheldon is one of the top 10 cities places to live for the simple fact that my mail rates going to jump from 24 down to 17, and I've already paid nothing in taxes because the corporate tax role and the way in which this place was redeveloped, not developer originally Shelton Connecticut, 0 6, 4 8, 4.

See, my neighborhood is so well run and everybody's building, we've got this route eight connector. We've got the infrastructure to get it. We don't have the public transportation in some aspects, but everything else is there. They built over a thousand departments, all occupied because of this new community, because everybody came out of the cities.

Now the supporting businesses are all thriving redeveloping. Uh, just the other day they approved 38 acres for an industrial complex because that's, there's so much to everyone's point. Really. There's so many deals out there. From the brokerage side of a very happy person or in Oakland,

uh, we don't have to worry. The only supply shortage I have is inventory that's because stall won't sell his carwash.

Uh, and, um, and then the labor side, because, because Chris has people won't commit at work cause they don't have the people. It sounds like, uh, Darren on the, on the not to go back to a sad note on the, on the cybersecurity center, things that pace are we seeing with everything going on in the world are more people going into this, the computer roles, the remote rules, that whole sector of education and just abandoning the rest of us, you know, Chris's labor unions.

Well, marketing's pretty much remote, no offense. Um, other areas, financial, 

[00:42:06] Darren Hayes: I would, I would say that on the academic side, the students want to beat together. They want to network. They want to be with, they want to get away from mom and dad and be with people their own age. So I think that remote learning isn't really an attractive option, especially for undergraduate students.

Graduate students are a little bit more flexible. They don't mind online. Um, I think that one of the trends that I have noticed is, you know, somebody different, um, companies that are offering remote positions for people in cybersecurity, um, you know, IBM has been doing it for years and years, but other companies have decided to, to tap into that very small market of really skilled labor.

Um, they have to go with what employees want on that is working remotely. Being able to, in theory, spend more time with their family there. They're still spending just as much time working at home. They're, they're just, uh, don't have to leave the house and it's, but I see a lot more physicians that, you know, a couple of years ago would not have been available as a remote position.

And I would say that also probably travel, you know, a lot of companies have cut back on travel and it's not so much of a requirement anymore. So I would say that they're really the, the trends, but academic world, really, again, I would say the undergraduate population, they want to be together and in person classes.

[00:43:40] Andreas Senie: So the, the, the generational shift of more density. More together, more of this circled wagons mentality in real estate and construction. Although lack of workers in this region is, is also showing up in academia, more students in the computer sciences realm, less in the general business or God-forbid accounting.

Do we have any accountants on the call? Um, I, in other areas, um, so the next generation is, uh, is, uh, is on their keyboard period. That's why Chris can't find any labor, um, is because they're just not out there, 

[00:44:22] Saul Klein: you know, in this remote thing also plays into the environment, right? So people don't have to drive to work and drive home.

It fits that scenario as well. 

[00:44:29] Andreas Senie: Well, if the Tesla would drive me there and back, I'd have no problem yet it's coming. I've been told.

And all while getting greener with, uh, with the CPS programs and others, as I understand it, 

[00:44:48] Darren Hayes: I asked her a real estate question to you, experts. Uh, I was watching something on the news the other day, and they were talking about, you know, people who keep losing their bids on property, because people with cash offers are coming in and getting the real estate.

They want every time. And some people even, you know, get turned down 10 times because somebody comes in with a cash offer and you know, this trend, I think there's a company out there maybe Homeward or something like that, that has been fronting the money for these people. And they take a small percentage, but it gives people the ability to make a cash offer and be on par with other people.

Do you think that this is going to be the trend of the future? Are these buyers 

[00:45:35] Andreas Senie: I'll start on. We all will. I am, assumably have a bunch of to say here. One, a lot of these cash offers are so are significantly higher than, uh, you know, Tom, the builder or so on. Can't afford these first time home buyers, which has priced them out of the market to begin with commercial.

Residential, doesn't matter, you are now facing corporations, looking for those stabilized returns with more buying power. So how do you come at that leads us to a new, what sounds like lending instrument, uh, which I was first first heard termed a soft loan, which Anna Maria, you may know more about, which is a cash offer that isn't really cash.

I'll give you the cash for 90 days. So you can, so you can secure the property, set up, put in 40% down. Uh, and now I turn it over to you guys cause sure. I'm seeing that people are bought out 10, 20 times over, uh, residentially. I was, I lost 23 health homes with significant down in a row. It's not like I had a lazy broker.

There was no way there was any laziness and that was just purely being outbid. And then as the, as COVID continued that the corporations, the people I was bidding against, uh, you know, I w I was on match. I ended up buying out of an estate. We love our new home. It's beautiful. And we bought, we saw it seven minutes after it hit the market.

We put it under contract an hour and 12 minutes. Wow. I have way more than we did it too. But go ahead. Let's go back 

[00:47:06] Anna Maria Kowalik: to, um, Darren, you know, I think there are certain trends you tend to see in real estate that if you're old enough, like some of us, uh, come back time and time again. I remember in the early two thousands, when I bought the current house I'm living in there was that same kind of atmosphere pre-recession um, it just, uh, you know, Uh, a house couldn't be on the market for more than a day.

It wouldn't even hit the market. As soon as the realtor found out about it, uh, someone was scooping it up and, uh, you know, and going for higher than asking price and, and getting cash offers. So there are always going to be, there's always going to be that contingency of people, you know, uh, all right.

Maybe this is a slightly different, uh, trend with this service that you're talking about, uh, you know, funding that money, but like Andrea said, you know, then there are those, there's always been those at that soft loan component around. Uh, so I think, you know, it's just trends that come and go and come back again and, and, and leave.

And that's what we see in real estate all the time. Cyclical very, 

[00:48:26] Saul Klein: you hit it in. Grace is you've got, um, hedge funds. Wall street finally has seen the value. And so how, that's not going to change that there, these people are going to be there. They understand the value of real estate. They understand if you hold it long term, like the carwash, you hold it, long-term, it's going to be worth a lot more money and they're in, they can't get a return like that anywhere else.

So you're going to continue to see those kinds of offers coming in unless we build more. And so that's, the key is getting back to more supply because if we don't increase that supply, then the real estate remains a great investment for wall street. And that's where the money comes in. And they don't mind paying a little bit extra because.

Ideas, you hold this property for a certain period of time. Now are those people who are flippers, that's a different concept, right? But we've got people that are coming in the whole intention. We even see tracks of homes being built to rent, right? So they're building them to rent them out. And so a great investments, it's going to keep driving it.

The answer, the key for the first time home buyers is you got to build more property. You got it. And then that's back to this idea of more density reduces the land cost overall it's cleaner, all of these positive things. And so people need to start looking at that and you're right. And grace people are gonna, they're gonna fight that certain people are going to fight that.

Right. Cause it's not in my backyard. I don't want to deal with, but as more people become aware of the benefits of this, I think you'll start to see it. And it's generational, right? It'll change over time. And when we say we're going to increase density, it's not like it's going to happen over. And right now in California, I could build another unit in my backyard.

I'm not going to do it right now. It's going to take time for people to do it. It'll build itself out. And we see that in other neighborhoods in San Diego, I've been in real estate for almost 50 years now. And we've seen neighborhoods built out where they were once a single family neighborhood. They changed the zoning, why to increase the tax base, got federal money to come in, change the whole complexion of the neighborhood and the whole economic complexion of the neighborhood.

And that's going to start happening. It has to happen because we need more supply. 

[00:50:27] Andreas Senie: Yeah, that'll look there. The raw materials and labor shortages. Uh, and Chris, correct me if I'm wrong here at jail was quoting something like completion of projects, 2023. Yeah. We said January 20, 22, but we can't bang the nails if we don't have them.

So really it's 20, 23 saltier. In a mic in a, in a, in a very specific way, even if it gets approved and the changes are there and we start finding this today, we're not going to see it today in the city here from now. So Darren, back to your question, um, it's not your realtor's fault, most likely or your broker's fault, most likely, but you're facing some steep competition.

Uh, thanks for that. We're asking. I mean, wow. We are actually all the way, uh, eight minutes to the hour here. And as always is the, the format we I'd like to go around. What is the one biggest lesson each of us can give to our respective sec sector? Uh, from our respective sectors to, to the real estate professional tuning in what could they do this month?

What should they focus on? And then most poorly, how do they reach each of you? Uh, if they need your help, that's what we're here to do. We bring value every day. So a friend of mine says, we, you know, we're bringing that value. We grow our business. Jim fried a little shout out to Jim quickly here on the call.

Um, and as I said, saw Clyde here to my right on the zoom thing. So starting with Saul, 

[00:51:57] Saul Klein: well, I would say, look for the opportunity, avoid the descent. So there's going to be a lot of dissent, huge opportunities. So for people that list and sell and buy work with investors, look for the opportunity because there are going to be opportunities and it might not be politically acceptable for you.

But if you're in the real estate business, you can look around, you can find the positive side of this. And I think that that's the best thing I could say to people today is avoid the. And look for the opportunity and, um,

[00:52:29] Andreas Senie: what's fair enough. And come get the car washed at such and such, which by the way, did that become a two-way street without you knowing, or is 

[00:52:36] Saul Klein: that not yet, but you know, we'll cake because then they'll give us a, if we increase density, density, bonuses, mixed use.

So I'm just waiting for the developer to come in and offer us enough. 

[00:52:48] Andreas Senie: Yeah. The make me move price. Does that estimate? I shouldn't go that way. Let's not go back to that conversation for Becca, uh, out of Chicago marketing and real estate. What's uh, what's the big lesson, the big takeaway this month, as we get back to business sides, attend your luncheon biggest hardship and ICSE that's 

[00:53:06] Bekah Carlson: right.

And the luncheon in Las Vegas during ICSE. But I think as people do this re-entry period being strategic about maintaining relationships that were developed during COVID, there is, there are relations ships that we had pre. Then there's been this expansion of networks during COVID, which actually kind of doubles the number, the number of people in groups that we have to see now that we're in this post COVID reality.

So deciding strategically how to maintain what is most likely for many of us much bigger and broader networks is really crucial. So back to basics in CRM, relationship development, keeping track of people, making sure that you're reaching out to them regularly. Very much regular old fashioned brokerage basics are crucial.

In the frenzy of getting back out there, don't neglect your basics, 

[00:54:07] Andreas Senie: uh, that don't neglect the basics. Uh, the one hour rule may no longer apply for those that know it in real estate, you know, drive for an hour, that's your market. That's bigger now data that allows it to be much bigger, broader. And I was just in a huge networking event that with, uh, a bit of a I'd mentioned it before the call, it was like, were let, they kept pairing me up with people for these one-on-one speed dating sessions.

I've never done that. And it was, it was actually, it was quite beneficial. I met two people. We're going to do talk about doing business together. I love that. Take what we've learned at the people we've met the ways of doing it, kind of hold on to some of it, Chris, you're up next? 

[00:54:47] Chris Able: Um, yeah. So just quick things one again, this was probably months ago we were talking and we were at the end of the show and I mentioned, um, about, you know, digging in and asking the right questions and finding the right builders.

Um, you know, especially during a time where they're struggling and they're trying to figure out exactly what their next moves are now is the time to be, if you're in that spot, you should be in that spot, you know, to be patient with the, with those contractors and with those builders. And then the, to kind of piggyback on what Becca was saying.

I'm seeing that increase in network. And, um, this is a little bit of a tilt. Um, you know, of the cap to Becca and her industry is I've always learned that. You can, you can, if you, if you invest in marketing and you're in your marketing things correctly, you can kind of control certain narratives and control certain ways of doing things.

So if your, if your network has increased, I found that, um, which is what's going on in the association world. I making my visits, I'm getting out there, I'm doing this stuff that I need to do, but also I'm relying on, you know, marketing to kind of carry some of our other members of the association, carry some of my other network along while I'm getting back to some of the basics, because you can only be in, in, in, you know, you can only be so, so many places in a day to be doing, oh, I want to go to lunch.

I want to go, everyone wants to do that now. So what I'm seeing is, um, Correct marketing and keeping people up to speed on what it is. You're trying to push out as a message, for instance, an event like, um, like a dress that he came out to the, you know, I didn't, I didn't invite all of those people by meeting them.

We made sure that the marketing was correct. And then when I got there now, the followup is there. Now I can't sit there and say, Hey, everybody, come see the photos. I can take the flicker album and just splash it in front of all of them. And now they all are brought back into that same room again, in that creates enough energy up until the next event at the end of April.

Um, and it's this, this, you know, kind of juggling back and forth, and it gives me a, you know, a, uh, a whole new. Uh, appreciation for, for, you know, for the marketing game and things of that nature. Cause if you get that right backs, it keeps moving your network forward with you and less people are left behind.

[00:57:21] Andreas Senie: So, so the new hybrid communication style, the, the tried and true sales touches, let's call them for lack of a better word of just 13 touches as a close, I've got to talk to you 13 times. Maybe I don't back up crap. I wrote here, I just need to flashlight flicker really bring up another one, Twitter or Instagram, some over to you 13 times.

Um, and I, and I just about flicker, I knew about flickers before the others.

Um, great advice. Uh, obviously it's a, it reminds me of the tried and true, uh, realtor adage of don't forget to fill your pipeline, right? No matter how many deals you have. You have to keep cold calling prospecting, building that, that top of funnel pipeline, which many in the real estate industry, forget, they get a few deals and they're busy, busy, busy working that, that core group, that core deal.

And then those co those are closed deals. The opportunity is gone. Now they have nothing to do. It takes three months to ramp up. So don't miss out. What I'm hearing is don't miss out on that, that ramp up, that would now all build through. COVID hopefully all belts. If you're watching the show and otherwise, Anna Maria, 

[00:58:35] Anna Maria Kowalik: well, as we're running out of time, just simply think green, because in thinking green, you can really, uh, acquire a green energy savings, uh, will amount to something and, uh, help you meet your ESG goals, which are, which is the, uh, ultimate goal of all of this.

And so, uh, think green. Going 

[00:59:01] Andreas Senie: into spring free and we'll get you green with inland capital LLC and Darren, my, my foremost and favorite forensic expert, I'll saying cyber, what is the big takeaway 

[00:59:17] Chris Able: here? Yeah, I would just, 

[00:59:18] Darren Hayes: yeah, I would just really say, think about resilience. I mean, we're already seeing cyber attacks from Russia.

We, you know, companies have to be more vigilant. Uh, let's not think about cyber security as that annual training or that six month training where you tick the box when you've done that. It's not a compliance thing. We've, we're moving into a very different arena right now with what's going on in Ukraine and with Russia and companies are ramping up right now.

They're working with government. So check out the Seesaw website, CIS, see what advice there. Um, team up with competitors. So different industries, information sharing centers, that shit where they share their, their, um, threats that are going on. So the financial services industry has one. Healthcare has one entertainment industry because different industries are suffering from different types of threats right now.

So I would say, you know, think about partnering with people that you compete with in the real estate industry to see what threats that they're encountering right now. So be resilient. Think about your defenses. Know what, what the latest ransomware and malware is that were being impacted by, 

[01:00:32] Andreas Senie: uh, almost, uh, stopped thinking and a company I spoke with earlier this year said it they're like, well, no, that's legal.

No, it's not a legal problem. It's like going to the construction site. Everybody puts on a hard hat, whether you're the manager, the guy down banging the nails, everybody puts on a hard hat. And now what never was Ukraine. We all have to be paying more attention to our resilience, our networks, because our networks, our net worth.

And they don't just mean the people we know, although you're wonderful, people are actual or data networks. And Mr. Mendoza, I assume you're there Manning the controls and to our audience as we are here, right on the hour, you can download our show anywhere. You get your audio, apple podcasts, Alexa, Google podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, Pandora.

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