TODAYS PATHWAY TO PROFITABILITY IN COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE AND BEYOND

[00:00:00] Andreas Senie: Welcome back to this month's round table, your all in one comprehensive view of what's happening across the real estate industries, straight from some of the industry's earliest technology adopters and foremost, experts in technology, marketing, brokerage, government policy, capital construction, cybersecurity.

As always, this is a three-part show. Part one, introductions. What's happening with each of our round table hosts. Part two, we dive deep and unpack some of the biggest news and paradigm shifts affecting your business. And part three, inside tips on what you can do to do better as we move forward into the next month.

I'm Andreas Seni, founder Siri, collaborative, brokerage owner and commercial director kw, as well as technology growth strategist for both the non-profit and for-profit sectors. And joining me this month is none other than Saul Klein, the original real estate internet evangelist. My good friend and car wash owner outta California, Saul, nice to see you.

Great to be back. And Rebecca Carlson, founder and c e o Carlson, integrated all things marketing outta Chicago. Nice to see you as well. And. Chris Abel, membership director, A B C C T, all things construction followed by none other than Anna Maria Kowalik out of Inland's Green Capital, and Dan Wagner, VP of government relations, inland Real Estate group of companies.

As I was saying before we got started, all my favorite people all in the same room. I could not be more excited about this. We love you too, Andreas and our Hey guys, our audience loves us. We're up to 2,400 monthly downloads. This show continues to grow. We're doing something right, so let's keep doing the right thing the right way.

Uh, thanks to the wonderful audience, thanks to our audience and Mr. Mendoza in the background there doing the, the wizardry for the show. Dan, you're on my right this month on the, uh, On the Brady Bunch screen. How are you? What's going on 

[00:02:51] Chris Abel: in your side? 

Oh, 

[00:02:52] Dan Wagner: you know, I'm doing terrific. It's a, it's a wild world that we exist within, uh, the federal government.

Increasing those interest rates has been, uh, probably is, is as quick as they've been doing. It is probably one of the biggest challenges that we're all facing in, in every aspect. So, uh, that's probably one of the big topics of our discussion tonight is my guess, 

[00:03:14] Andreas Senie: interest rates, certainly, um, interest rates, lenders, you know, cost of capital, all big considerations as we move forward into this, into this period.

There's a saying that I've repeated many times this month. Institutions are out there looking for steals and investors are looking for deals. Which means there's plenty of opportunity out there. It's just a matter of putting the right people together, 

[00:03:38] Dan Wagner: and that's the big deal. You're absolutely right. The hard part is gonna be the folks that have those loans that are, that are, uh, needing to be adjusted and they can't jump to, uh, the level they have to jump to.

[00:03:50] Andreas Senie: So well, and, and that's why we're the industry's here to pick up the slack. We've got plenty of, uh, Henry's high earners, not rich yet with money looking to place those, that capital. Amen. As far as the marketing side, Becca, what's the biggest thing happening on your side of the fence? 

[00:04:08] Anna Maria Kowalik: So 

[00:04:09] Andreas Senie: the biggest thing happening in my world right now actually is in-person events.

Holy cow. I had three last week alone and I love seeing people out and about. But I would say we're pretty much at pre covid levels, which, uh, pulls you in some directions that you may not be as physically accustomed to, like long commutes, long trips to venues, long time at venues home and 

[00:04:36] Anna Maria Kowalik: then back to 

[00:04:36] Andreas Senie: finish your work.

Well. So rates increasing, the fed changes, but events are fully, are packed out. People are out there doing business. I mean, that proves the point. Business is moving all around. For sure, for sure. Chris, how's the construction side? Are people actually building, 

[00:04:56] Chris Abel: uh, more in the, I would say more in the public sector than in the private side of things, but, uh, You know, just to second Becca, as far as the events go, trying to get the events cranked up for, uh, the last portion of the year for, for A, B, C and other associations.

I see a lot of, uh, different associations kind of vying for dates and try and do some cross promotion to make sure that everyone is getting those full buckets of, uh, people in person. But, um, yeah, I mean, as far as the construction side, I mean the cost of kind of the human capital right now is, uh, is definitely, uh, is definitely kind of in an all time high.

A lot of the employees have a, have a, a, you know, a really good spot, uh, to put their management and their owners in to try to get what they want at this point. And, uh, definitely seeing some, uh, supply, you know, not so, so much supply chain issues, but some, uh, materials increases that dipped back in 2022.

Uh, cranked up a little bit for the first half of this year. So a lot going on. Always, always something going on. Never a dull 

[00:05:56] Andreas Senie: moment. I. Always building. Yes. And well, speaking of building rates, inflation, I mean, California is always sunny, it's always perfect. And the car wash is always running. Saul, what's going on in as in California and with all everything else you're doing with, uh, N A R San Diego Association otherwise?

Well, you 

[00:06:19] Saul Klein: know, it's interesting because it is event season. People kinda lose sight of that and you hit the nail on the head. You know, even I've got events, real estate standards organization is meeting, uh, in a couple of months. And, uh, the California Association of Realtors meeting in Anaheim, that's just a drive for me.

National Association of Realtors meeting in Anaheim. That's a drive for me. The Council of MLSs is meeting, um, that's in New Orleans. It's been a while since I've been in New Orleans. So that'll be kind of interesting. So you're right, it's like this is the time, this is event season. And I might even have a trip to Paris in December that actually, that's a long trip from San Diego.

But, um, but I'm con contemplating that and, you know, the, it's a little early in the month. I haven't got my car wash checks yet. And that's how I really measure how things are doing economically is by the size of the car wash check as it comes in every month. But I suspect it, it is, uh, you know, the summer and we always do better in the summer, but it, like everybody in the real estate, residential real estate side, it's a lack of inventory, high interest rates.

The, uh, you might have read that, uh, Fitch Group just downgraded, um, the, the United States financially. So from what aaa, Dan, you would probably know AAA to AA plus something. AA plus. Yeah. Yeah, so we're gonna see, you know, in addition to the fed maybe bumping rates a couple times, we've got higher risk, uh, at least contemplated by investors that would probably have a tendency to slow things down.

So it's gonna be an interesting, uh, second half of the year for sure, the last 

[00:07:56] Andreas Senie: quarter and a half anyway. Well, and you know, events, and don't worry, Dan, we're gonna talk about C five in just a minute, but before we do events and the Fed hiking rates, Add to that, I heard a little supply chain from, from Chris there on issues.

Anna Maria, is everything still green and sunny in your end? I mean, that was low cost of capital. Well funded and, and I've never heard a bad thing about C paste. 

[00:08:23] Anna Maria Kowalik: Well, you know, it's, it's still a little tough to get the C PACE deals to the finish line. Uh, the deals are, the transactions are taking longer, uh, because of some of these, all of the above issues except for great attendance at, uh, conferences, which I'd like to get into next.

Yeah. But, um, uh, certainly, um, You know, it, it becomes a more valuable, uh, part of the capital stack and, uh, because of these times and, and because of some of the challenges. And so, uh, it really helps, uh, put a little new life and impetus into a project. Um, I do want to address yes, conferences and in-person events.

Up exponentially. And, uh, I'm at so many of them. Um, currently, I'm, uh, coming to you from Minnesota again, uh, but this time for having attended a, uh, a Twin Cities Conference on construction and development. And I, I wanna put this out to you, Chris, and, uh, see what you think of it. But a, a very interesting comment was made at, um, on one of the panels regarding workforce and, uh, the, uh, the problems with finding enough workforce.

And, uh, apparently, you know, their unemployment rate is down under 3%. It's, um, they have. A, a, a great font of skilled workers and, uh, some, and a couple of the nationwide companies that were represented on the panel ended up saying that they sometimes have to ship their Minnesota workers to other states to get the jobs done.

And so I thought that was very interesting to, uh, uh, to learn. And I was wondering what you thought about it 

[00:10:30] Chris Abel: personally. Yeah. What's interesting is some of those bigger firms, I'm, I'm hearing that from some of the, the larger firms that I, I work with as well. Um, you know, you hear it from the smaller ones.

They say, oh yeah, I'm doing this and doing this to keep, you know, I gotta keep people busy, keep people busy. Mm-hmm. The, the benefit of some of those larger firms is that they do have jobs in different areas. Mm-hmm. You know, whether they have a job, I'm obviously in Connecticut, but if they have a job down in, um, you know, West Virginia or something like that, they have the benefit of saying, Hey, you know what, we gotta not only keep them busy, we gotta keep them happy, we gotta keep them paid.

Let's, let's send them down. Let's, let's dig into our resources and let's send them down to, you know, to take care of different jobs in different areas. Um, I think the biggest, the biggest issue we're seeing here as far as in the Northeast, it all has to do with that skilled labor. Anything that you need a license for is just this backup.

Now the nice thing is, The, the enrollment at some of the schools, at least in the Northeast, is high in regards to apprentices and people that wanna, you know, I just had a group come in yesterday while I was working of about five or six, um, you know, potential apprentices. And they, they want in, they all want in, and they, so the numbers are good there.

The only thing is, um, you know, it's gonna take four years to, to put them through an apprentice prog apprenticeship program. Then the ratio in Connecticut's, uh, really wacky. But, um, so I feel like it's almost like the reserves are coming and there, there, there is, there is some hope. The only thing is it's just gonna take time.

Um, yes. And it's just that the licensed, the licensed trades. But I've heard the same thing where, you know, people are saying, Hey, you know what? I got 10 extra electricians here. We got a job out there. Okay, let's go. They're being very careful about not sending them to other companies because mm-hmm. The, the, the gloves are off when it comes to coaching.

Um, but yeah, so I know a lot of the larger companies kind of have that benefit of saying, Hey, let's pick up this job out there. It may not be our biggest money maker 'cause we might have to send people out and spend money on travel and cost and, and, and, and room and board type of stuff. But hey, if it keeps them busy, if we don't take a bath on it, then we don't have to let go or run the risk of, you know, our guys kind of floating around and talking to other people saying, yeah, I'm not really too, too busy.

And next thing you know, they end up landing with, uh, with somebody else. So it's interesting. Well, then of 

[00:12:58] Anna Maria Kowalik: course they did mention too, uh, uh, the importance of reaching, uh, students at the high school level and, uh, encouraging them to consider trades. Uh, and, and yes, you know, a lot of, uh, the recruiters, uh, for colleges as well as the, uh, uh, uh, you know, uh, People, uh, doing the, um, uh, counseling at the high schools, uh, you know, tend to always, uh, talk up the college education, but it's not for everyone.

And, uh, trades can make a, uh, good, you know, living and, uh, and, and so, um, there was another spur for encouragement in that area, as we've discussed on this panel before. 

[00:13:49] Chris Abel: I know, I know. Something I was always kind of taught was years ago. It's not always how much you make, it's how much you don't spend. And that's what I love about the idea of not taking out tens of thousands, if not a hundred thousand plus in loans to, you know, I, I can't imagine being a student of that age right now, having that kind of on my back.

Um, you know, coming out with the degree, and again, it's. Teach his own, you know, there's certain things that, you know, everyone's gonna find their little fit and hopefully everyone finds their fit. But, um, it's a lot of money when you, when you start staring down, you know, four years of debt and then you kind of get into the industry.

Um, something I probably shared at a previous show and then, and, you know, we move on, but the, uh, my previous life, I spent a lot of time in the high schools. I know Andreas, you and I definitely had this discussion in person at one point, and at the beginning of the year, you walk in and they're required to provide a school profile from the previous year.

So you walk in into a college fair or guidance visit or whatever the case is, and the counselors will hand you this school profile. They'll leave it on the table if you're, if you're at a college fair. And it has all these stats about the school and all that sort of stuff. But it always had either a pie chart, and I'm sure I said this before, it either had a pie chart or a bar chart that would basically say the percentage of who went where and they were required to make this public.

And they would often have four year college. A two year college military and then after that it would, 99% of the time it would say other. So the other was always the person going into the trades and or the other would be the person going into the family business or the other would be anything that wasn't.

And a lot of times they didn't even, uh, take note of military. 'cause those numbers were usually really small, but there's money on the backend for all that. How high of a percentage are you sending to four and two year schools? Um, so there's grant money, there's different types of money that they can make.

So it's important that there's at least one or one counselor within these high schools that is dedicated to, Hey, listen, it's not for everybody. You know, give me that caseload, send them to me. I know a couple really good counselors that I don't know if I would go this extreme, but they don't put college posters on their wall.

You go in their office and all their posters have to do it. Other alternative methods, and maybe they'll have a, uh, career pathing map, which where I work, we have a couple of these career pathing maps to kind of show what direction you can go in. And, um, unfortunately there's, we're a little late to the game in regards to counselors who are saying, you know what?

Let's, let's start getting people where they need to get and where they need to go. Um, but it's all, it's all true stuff. I mean, eventually I think we'll be in, in somewhat good shape. It's just gonna take, it's just gonna take time. Um, well, let's, 

[00:16:45] Andreas Senie: let's not to say we're sorry, uh, Dan to jump in, but that's not to say we're not in good shape now, it sounds like to Becca's Point and Saul and, uh, and Dan, you know, we have to expand our network and go farther away to find the right professionals that are readily available to do the work now, and then bring them where we need them.

Uh, 

[00:17:06] Chris Abel: and manage expectations also. Oh, 

[00:17:09] Dan Wagner: of course. The thing that drives me crazy about student debt is the, uh, you can get a college degree and you don't have to spend a hundred thousand dollars. I have four kids. We go to college in DuPage or community college, it's five grand a year. They're, we're able to do that and, and then there's other ways to be able to go onto the next, to the next level.

Mm-hmm. But the kids that get the a hundred thousand dollars loans and they go and have fun, and then all of a sudden they say, wait a second, I got, this is horrible. I shouldn't have to pay for that. Yeah. It's, uh, it's just drives me crazy. So I'm happy the Supreme Court came back and said, yeah, you can't just wipe all this debt away.

Um, but it's, uh, you know, clearly it's an issue, but 

[00:17:49] Andreas Senie: we have to, it's a big issue. Big, it's a long conversation we could end up having Yeah. On college 

[00:17:55] Chris Abel: debt and without getting too deep into it and scholarships. I mean, I spent a log large part of my time in the high schools doing presentations on scholarships, and part of my.

Um, presentation was, I would do the research and dig up these scholarships, and I would, I would usually attract them by digging up crazy scholarships, like really off the wall type scholarships. But the percentage of, of people who was, who were applying for scholarships was just, you know, I don't know where the numbers are now, but years ago it was just such an abi, like bal, you know, number of people who would actually apply because they assume they can't get 'em.

When I worked for a culinary school at one point, we would have 10, 10, $1,000 scholarships for whatever it might be. I don't, I don't remember what the criteria was, but the long story short is we would, almost every year we'd have probably maybe half of them still wide open because the kids were just applying for them.

Yeah. And there was only so much we could do as counselors. There was, there was a little red tape there, but still it was the interest or the idea of like, I. And I'll tell you, a lot of it had to do with the parents. A lot of it has to do with the parents going into the colleges and getting the loans, and a lot of it has to do with the parents saying, well, my kid's not gonna get a 

[00:19:08] Dan Wagner: scholarship.

But, but Chris, you got, you got a guy like Saul who has, his IQ is so high that he didn't have to pay for anything because all the schools were going to try to get him in there. That's, well, 

[00:19:18] Andreas Senie: I believe Saul went to the Naval Academy and that was his Actually did. 

[00:19:22] Saul Klein: I did. I did not pay anything. 

[00:19:25] Andreas Senie: Right. I got paid to 

[00:19:26] Chris Abel: go to college.

That's it. That's right. Well, there's another way. There's another way to do it right there. Right. 

[00:19:30] Saul Klein: It's kind of interesting because you say Chris, the very little, the number for the military was small. When I was. Uh, that age, everybody went into the military. Yeah. You either went into the military or you went to school because if you didn't go to school, you got drafted and you went to Vietnam.

Mm-hmm. And so that was the scenario at the time. And if you wanted to stay out of Vietnam for a short period of time, then you found a way to go to college. And, and one of the things, I think, so maybe there's some good things happening here because we really need a, a paradigm shift in the way people think.

And, and I blame the federal government and the colleges for these debts because what happened is the government said everybody should have a college, an opportunity to have a college education. The universities took advantage of that. They started, their fees started increasing. We, we knew back in the sixties and seventies that a college degree wasn't for everybody, and we used to complain about underwater basket weaving.

We would talk about some of the courses that people took. Even back then that would lead to nowhere. But in California at the time, you could go to community college for nothing. You could go to State College. I was really proud of being from California because everybody could get an extra two years, no cost.

Go to junior college, we call them. And you could go to San Diego State or Long Beach State or Los Angeles, not the university system, although that was. Inexpensive. You could go to the state college system. They call it state college. They call state university now. Mm-hmm. For next to nothing. I think I went, before I went to the Naval Academy, I went to San Diego State University called San Diego State College and my fees were like $52.

And so you could, education was attainable, but when they started making funding available through loans for people who don't understand what a 

[00:21:20] Dan Wagner: loan is. Yeah, yeah. Then 

[00:21:23] Saul Klein: the colleges and universities start. Now we start I think maybe seeing the value of having a, a, a trade. Yeah. Right. Being a plumber, being a carpenter, being, you know, there's value in those things and those types of, and honor in those professions and, and maybe now we're starting to see all these people crying 'cause they can't pay their college debts.

And we see people that don't go to college, able to make money and don't have that debt. Maybe that's the shift that we need when, 

[00:21:52] Andreas Senie: when we have go go. So people just don't apply. That's what Chris was saying for loans, right? For, for scholarships. And Saul, you're talking about people don't understand these student loans.

And these are all, this is education, which is what C five C C I m, these summits, these conferences. I mean, that's the purpose of most of these associations. First and foremost, outside of policy and lobbying on our behalf for our respective industries, is to educate, right? So the answer is they don't need to go to college.

They need to be going to real estate and join C C I M and go to the C five summit. 

[00:22:31] Dan Wagner: Well, and I'll, and I'll just, uh, do a shameless plug. So I'll be speaking at the C five summit about the 10 31, like had exchange with, uh, Evan Lard. So I hope, uh, everybody can, uh, if you have time, it's gonna be at Atlanta and it's this 28th, 29th and 30th of September.

And I hope you, uh, consider going but. Um, Evan Lard is from the National Association of Realtors in Charge of Tax, and, uh, both of us will be talking about all of the great things that the 10 31 does for our economy in the United States. And we are blessed to have the ccis, which are kinda like the Green Berets of commercial real estate.

Just really brilliant people. I love, uh, ccis. 

[00:23:12] Saul Klein: Well, you know, you talk about 10 31 Dan, it's like, uh, what a great way to build the states with pre-tax dollars. Absolutely. So what a great advantage it is for people that they just knew about this and, and yet we have people trying to take this away from us, don't we?

I, I have 

[00:23:29] Dan Wagner: a, uh, I have actually have a dinner, uh, with the congressman on Monday, um, in Chicago. And it's to explain the whole 10 31 experience to him, because he's, he's brand new in as a member of Congress. And when these, you know, when the new members of Congress get in there, they see things and they hear things and they see, oh, I gotta go after this loophole.

It's like, Nope. Let me tell you what this does for the economy and for all areas of the economy. And when, when they start learning that, that there's a, there's a reason why this has been in the tax code for a hundred years and it hasn't gone away, and that they start learning the importance of this is the 4 0 1 K real estate.

You're able to use pre-tax dollars and you grow your wealth and eventually when you cash out, you pay the tax. And that's been just huge. So 4 0 1 K real estate has probably been the best way to explain that to members of Congress and their, uh, and their aides. 

[00:24:20] Saul Klein: Yeah, so 10 31, just a great, great advantage that people need to know more about, but there's nowhere to really learn about it.

So it's great that you're out there teaching people and telling 'em about it and teaching the Congress people, 'cause they don't have a clue about the advantages that come from this type of thing. And, uh, you know, the, the tax code really, you talk about loopholes. I've always said there really are not any loopholes.

So there are very few loopholes that the purpose of the tax code is social and economic engineering. And so when congress wants to accomplish things, there's two ways to do it, carrot or stick. And so that they create our, our mechanisms to achieve their ends. The government's ends and they do this through tax advantaged investing tools.

And it's not about cheating, it's not about taking advantage about, it's about doing what the government wants you to do. Right? And that's the way that they do it. And so for people who plan all their life and work all their life playing by the rules, it's really not fair to go change the rules on 'em.

Uh, late in the game, right? And we often see that happen, right? So luckily we have people like you that are willing to go out there and lobby on our 

[00:25:30] Dan Wagner: behalf. Uh, I don't, I'm not a lobbyist. I advocate there's a big difference. I 

[00:25:35] Saul Klein: spread the word. There 

[00:25:36] Andreas Senie: you go. There you go. So, and as we're, and, and speaking of spreading the word and being out there, you know, the biggest fear I see talking to people is, is analysis paralysis.

They're, they're moving about 10 31. Exchange aside. Investors are just kind of frozen, um, labor aside. And here we are. How do we get a message out? How do we help educate people that there is, are these opportunities to move forward, to take advantage of the 10 31 to take advantage of cpac? I mean, obviously the events are only one way.

That's a networking, uh, opportunity. And this one's, well, these are 

[00:26:20] Anna Maria Kowalik: kinds of things I've always said, Andreas, you can't put them on a billboard. You know it because it's not for all people at all times. Uh, Dan and I do a lot of networking, uh, outside of, um, Uh, big events like this. Um, we, uh, participate in educational opportunities often, uh, through groups like C C I M as previously mentioned, and, uh, in Chicagoland, uh, car and, uh, n a r and, uh, other groups, um, uh, and Dan in particular, and not to, you know, I'll toot your horn, Dan, uh, you know, he's always out there, uh, in every state and every place, you know, just trying to make an impact.

And it's, it's a lot like politics in a sense that it's a lot of handshaking. It's a, it's a lot of, you know, face-to-face, um, kind of, uh, engagement. And it really, uh, is a, a kind of cumulative type of experience, uh, because you have to. Touch that, um, uh, topic or those people at least five to seven times for them to really get to know, uh, what your, uh, spiel is all about and how it works, and the right questions to ask.

Because suddenly at one point a light bulb comes on over the head and, and then they, it starts clicking. And so they know, uh, how to, uh, absorb the information. 

[00:28:07] Andreas Senie: So, uh, so overcoming all the noise that's out there, right, these incentives, there are so many incentives out there that Saul just mentioned, that Dan mentioned.

We've got 10 31, we've got government regulation, we've got zoning as the way it's meant and purpose built to help us plan for future. How do we best overcome that noise and how do I, we identify the best pathway to profitability for our respective clients sectors, industries is was the follow up to that question, to Becca and or Dan?

I, I, you know, 

[00:28:40] Dan Wagner: Becca, go ahead. I've been talking so much. Go ahead, Becca. 

[00:28:44] Andreas Senie: Well, certainly repetition, as Anna Maria said is just pointed out. Yep. Seven times. Seven times. And also there's that piece of education that we all are in complex industries. These are not simplistic, these are important business things that are not immediately easy to learn.

So it does take that repetition. Repetition. It does take staying in front of people trying to stay top of mind. I mean, I think the best thing you can do is to join a fantastic podcast with Andreas. I think that's a really wonderful way for, to get the message out about what you're doing and maintaining relationships.

Wait, your network is your net worth. Andreas, that's yours. Uh, that I took that from Jonathan Stein. Let's be fair. But yes, your network is your net worth, right? Um, and who you know, who you know as anyone in commercial real estate will tell you is, is, is what makes or breaks your ability to do business.

But we've got this whole new generation of deal makers, marketers, contractors, guys in the government who don't know anything about, uh, the inner workings of commercial and the intricacies of C pace. So network, there's only so many hours in the day. What do you do? Well, what 

[00:30:03] Saul Klein: I, 

[00:30:04] Dan Wagner: what I also think is, Y there's just something that I've been a part of and, you know, most of us have been a part of with the National Association of Realtors that rpac um, that networking that happens through with the realtors, boots on the ground, realtors, that when you have a professional person and not just a, you know, a computer telling you what the numbers are for housing or, or anything, you actually have a live body who's gonna be able to explain to you what's going on.

You know, they'll, they'll understand if they're, they're worth their assault, which usually the ones that are involved in the association are and very engaged. They know about cpac, they know about, uh, C C I M. They know about all these other aspects of. Of real estate. And you wanna have the best of the best.

And I, I think there's nobody, nothing better than a realtor or the realtor model to be able to work with the, the professional that has the most experience. And the ones that I've, I've seen, or the ones that are engaged, involved in their local association. I, I know before I was involved with iland or with any, anything in business related to, uh, real estate, I was in the insurance business and I wanted to buy a house.

And so, you know what I did? I looked up who's the president of the Illinois Realtors, and, uh, I was able to call John, uh, Veneris and God rested his soul. And he, he's the one that, that I bought a house from. 'cause I knew he's gonna be the best of the business. And he ended up, uh, selling another house for me, uh, within 24 hours.

'cause he was so good. And it's, uh, you, you, you go to the best and, and I think that you go to your association, um, they probably help out a lot. Saul, I know that you're, you're a believer in that. 

[00:31:45] Saul Klein: Yeah, absolutely. I've been a realtor for 48 years or something. Right. I got my gold 40 year pin and Oh, do you?

Yeah. Participated a lot and, and you're absolutely right. You and a lot of people will ppo the, the, the, the organizations and whether or not they should participate. But you get people who are really interested in the organ, in the, their profession. They're really interested in the, the politics. They're really interested in helping.

And I, I don't sell real estate anymore, but I have an opportunity to make referrals. And I refer to people who I've met who are in my network, who I know, who I know are dedicated to work time, who understand the issues. And you run into those people more often at your associations, be it at the local, state, or national level?

So I'm an advocate for what I call organized real estate, and I have been for a long time, and I've put in my share of voluntary hours. Yeah. Um, and I'll continue to do 

[00:32:43] Andreas Senie: so. Well, I'm sure, 

[00:32:44] Anna Maria Kowalik: and you don't only get professionals in this organization particularly, but you're getting a full code of ethics. Great.

And that is so important. Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, because you wanna be dealing with ethical people. And, uh, this is, uh, a, a very important point in today's 

[00:33:04] Andreas Senie: world, 98% of my business has been repeat reputation and referral. Having a network, relying on that network surrounding myself with smart people, my concern for, for the future is two things.

And they, they both came up today, A gentleman said to me, he's been in the business for 40 years. He goes, you know, I know that I'm smarter than a computer because when I was flying a plane, the plane wanted to land me in a jungle and I hit a button and I was able to not land that plane in the jungle and save my life.

Whereas the next generation in my. Experience seems to think that the computer is smarter than they are. They don't need to know it. They can just ask the computer, which scares the crap out of me for many reasons. So, to, to your point of educating and being involved, showing up is half that battle.

Getting involved in and being in a room where you can learn from others as opposed to a computer screen, uh, association is the only place I know to do that without huge college fees. Um, and tuition needs. 

[00:34:10] Chris Abel: It's, it's true to, to kind of piggyback off of even going back to what Becca said, you know, as far as our, all of our industries are not, it's complicated.

They're very complicated and they're not, you know, they're not simple, but some of the stuff that we just wrapped around really quick from everybody, if you think about it, the concepts were very, They're simp, they're simple concepts. As long as you're around, you know, Dan mentioning who he reached out for to sell the house.

That's not, it's in one, in one way. It's brilliant, but it's also so simple. It's so easy. What's the best way to do it? To go after somebody, you know, and sa mentioning, you know, where you know the refer, you know who he's gonna refer to, who he's gonna go to. Um, and it's, it's the same thing. It's the concepts are relatively simple behind how to get where you need to go.

But the, the, even though the industries are nowhere near simplistic in, in any way, shape or form, just the conversations I have on a daily basis, just a few that I had today, um, with potential members or members of, of, of A, B, C I'm learning. They're learning from me. We start throwing different things around.

Um, and next thing you know, something positive is coming out of it. Aside from the fact that we're just having this. Conversation and this simple conversation and this simple, um, dialogue that is ethical, simple, um, friendly. All these things kind of combine. 'cause everyone's having the conversations now about, Hey, what's going on?

Someone's almost over talk, people talking about kids, people talking about vacations. You knock that out in a couple, you know, uh, 30 seconds to a minute and next thing you know, you're off to the, off to the races. As far as having a, a great conversation with someone in the industry, and I can't say enough to back what you're saying, Andreas, like the access, I've only known about associations, committees, boards for five years.

Five years. I kind of give the 10 there, but five years. So, um, I didn't, I didn't spend a lot of money in college for, for, uh, not math degree. So anyway, just in that five years, the amount of knowledge that has come my way and the amount that I could push out there just by having conversations with some of the best, best people that I know.

It's just, I mean, it's amazing. I tell people about this, the podcast all the time for that simple reason. I'm like, where else do I have that, that access? And what's been, what's been Als also nice about this is just some of the stuff that, you know, for the listeners behind the scenes, um, you know, some of the stuff that we throw into our group chat just, Hey, I found this article.

Let's throw it out there. Hey, I found a, a job in Chicago. You know, anybody out there. Um, 

[00:36:57] Andreas Senie: it's, it's been the ongoing collaboration. It's not, and 

[00:37:01] Chris Abel: it's not, it's not, it's not, um, the, the methods are somewhat simplistic. They're just, I. Hanging in there. And I think part of it's just 'cause we, we've all been kind of doing this stuff for a while.

It's, it's kind of like, you know mm-hmm. Telling a professional basketball player, you know, or a professional basketball player saying, just jump, just dunk it. Just shoot, just make the shot. And then we kind of, any of us might sit there and go, uh, it's not that easy. But I just think the approach is, if you keep it kind of simple, you can navigate and navigate a little further, navigate a little further, 

[00:37:37] Andreas Senie: and, and you can course correct and navigate together.

And that's part two of what I was talking about before, is if you believe the computer is smarter than you are, then you're not gonna debate or argue the points that it brings 

[00:37:49] Dan Wagner: up. Well, the other thing related to all this stuff is, um, I wanted to, this is, um, there's 12 associations on this, this sheet that, that I just got today.

There's 12. Chicago Realtors, elderly realtors, um, Chicago Apartment Association, whole bunch of folks. And what they're doing is they're coming together because the new mayor of Chicago has, he wants to increase, um, the transfer tax from $10,500 to $29,500 per 1 million property. He wants to triple transfer tax.

And that creates this, the downward urban spiral. And, and this is where just, you know, one, one person that's a realtor can't do anything about this one person that's a builder can't do, you know, it's, it's coming together. And that's a whole nother huge aspect of why you're involved in your association.

Some people say, why am I paying dues? I'm like, are you kidding me? It's the best insurance policy. Why am I paying, why am I putting our PAC money in? 'cause it's the best insurance policy you could do. You have the possibility of tripling the, the transfer tax in Chicago besides all the other taxes. It's just, it's unbelievable.

But there's 12 industry leaders, I C S E, I mean, you name it, they're all involved in trying to educate members of the city council of Chicago to say this is gonna be really detrimental. Mm-hmm. And, and I'm sure you know, in California saw they've never seen a taxi they don't like, but you got, uh, you got a lot of, uh, groups that are trying to, 

[00:39:23] Saul Klein: it's crazy here.

And so we talk about, on the one hand, housing affordability and nobody can afford to buy. And on the other hand, we wanna add taxes to it and it just doesn't make any sense. Right. Because people just don't understand. We've got, uh, here in San Diego, they just changed a, a, a tenant law where if a landlord wants to let a tenant go for good reason, you gotta remodel a house for some reason other than the tenant not giving notice, I think it's now you gotta give them, pay 'em three months.

Of relocation fee. Oh. A lot of these units are owned by single, owned by mom and pop investors, you know, family properties in the family and to, you know, that just makes it outrageous if you've gotta to move somebody out of a unit to have to pay them three months. Right. It's insane. Right. But we have these, these are made, so these types of proposals, only LA's got this thing where a property sells for over a certain amount of money.

They got a wealth tax on top of it, and now San Diego thought that was a good idea. So it's coming on the ballot in San Diego and it's like over a million dollars. Yeah. Well, if it's over a million dollars, people should be paying the taxes anyway. Well, that's just like the average house in, it's not like that's the, a wealthy person's house, right?

Mm-hmm. And so all of these things, the government will take your right, they'll take all the money they can and. When the governments run in deficits, when they need money, when they need their own pet projects to feed, where's the biggest chunk of money available? And the answer is, it's in the real estate.

Yep. That's the biggest piece. And that's also the piece that's the easiest to say. It's not fair that these homeowners don't have to pay for this. And this is fairness thing. Right. It's not fair. And we've got a whole generation of people that think the most important thing that there is is a whole idea of fairness.

There's a lot more to life than fairness and life isn't fair, but that's the argument we hear. Back to your point, Andreas, about people thinking the computer is smarter than them in some cases today, I believe it is.

[00:41:26] Andreas Senie: I'll second that.

Oh, well, I mean the computer computers have gotten incredibly, I. Good at delivering information. It's where that information comes from. Uh, that's incredibly important. And that's what's getting lost. I mean, well, 

[00:41:46] Saul Klein: I, and I, I wanna say, I didn't mean the bar, the bar is so high. 

[00:41:51] Andreas Senie: Oh no, I, yeah. The computer. 

[00:41:53] Saul Klein: Great.

Right. 

[00:41:55] Andreas Senie: We know the, um, well, I mean, you look at chat g p t as an example or otherwise, I had a new agent, what I must believe is a newer agent on, on the other side of a transaction. And we are going back and forth and all of a sudden there was a response in there on the, on a counter. And I looked at it and I went, you got that outta chat, g p t, you put my, what I told you into chat, G P T.

And you asked it how to, how to, how to counter. And so I tested it and I went onto chat, G P T, and I put the same type of prompt in and sure enough, There it was, you know, almost verbatim. Wow. And I went, and it was obviously it was wrong. It was just the wrong approach. Right. But it sounded very well written.

Which was my first clue.

[00:42:46] Anna Maria Kowalik: So it, it, uh, but just this week there was, uh, an article that came out, uh, about one of the major real estate companies developing their own G P T internally. And, um, I, I don't know if eventually they'll grow it to the point where they can sell the systems, you know, to other real estate companies, but they're like putting it, they're doing this database.

Just for their national company, right, internally, so that, uh, you know, their groups, uh, uh, you know, in another state can look up demographic information or other data and, and be more effective and efficient, uh, you know, by using this system. And, um, and, and it sounded pretty interesting now, something like that, uh, in a more controlled environment.

Um, you know, and maybe setting a framework, like I said, you know, maybe they'll develop a framework then that they'll, you know, sell to other companies. But other companies it said in the same article are looking at doing the same thing as well, uh, or are in some phase of that production. So, It was pretty interesting.

[00:44:08] Andreas Senie: That is absolutely true. I mean, uh, chat, g p t opened everyone's eyes just like covid, forced commercial real estate to come online chat. G p t opened everyone's eyes to AI tools, technology and assistance. 'cause AI's been around for quite some time, but, and a colleague said it to me the other day and it was perfect.

Chachi, bt, or whichever AI tool you decide to use, is basically just a digital intern. You have to train it, you have to teach it, and you have to make sure it's not hallucinating, um, regardless of where and how that data's coming from. Because while it may be great at creating a foundation or a quick summary of something, if you don't have the industry knowledge to understand where it went off the rails.

You're in, you're in big trouble. So major corporations, all corporations, even all the startups in c r e tech, commercial real estate tech, everybody's implementing some form of AI policies and what to do with it. That's really the biggest question. Where can you use it? I mean, marketing's making huge advancements in this area with, with images and, and so forth.

Go ahead. So I, 

[00:45:22] Saul Klein: I saw use the other day, it made a lot of sense to me and that was compliance. Mm-hmm. So you can have, uh, AI can kind of look at remarks in a multiple listing service and find those that might not be, uh, in compliance with fair housing laws. Mm-hmm. Fair housing regulations. Mm-hmm. Sometimes there and multiple listing services have rules around photos and images where you can't take a picture of your for sale sign and put it in the multiple listing service, and it goes out to all these big.

Portals. And so they don't allow you to do that. Some realtors are kind of smart. They have their license plate, their phone number on it, park their car in the driveway, and then they take a picture of it. So there are different, uh, things that people might do that are not compliant with the rules and regulations and AI can be used to help you police that kind of thing.

So there are these uses and people gotta just spend more time looking at what they do and where the application can work and where it doesn't work. And it works well in some and doesn't work well in others. 

[00:46:23] Andreas Senie: So similar how you'd, you'd get the lowest guy in the office to go out and check the, the cars in the parking lot.

That, that type of work. The research work, the, the re re, uh, repeat tasks, data points, checking data points, right? Going through those large policy documents on 10 31 and making sure they didn't slide them in on some, on a different bill, things of that nature. I, I couldn't agree more. I mean, couldn, AI's not only here to stay, AI has to be integrated into your business.

[00:46:52] Saul Klein: Well, there's a company, I look at their stuff, rest, b.ai, and what it, it does a number of things. One of them is it can populate data fields from images. Yeah. Right. So that's kind of helpful in the real estate world. Right. And you can populate these data fields right down to the type of refrigerator and then the operator's manual hook too.

I mean, there's a lot of benefits from using it in a very specific way in, uh, in your industry, in your work, 

[00:47:21] Andreas Senie: whatever you're working on. Well, even, you know, as a managing broker or even a manager, right? You're, you have, you've gotta review emails, you have all of these contracts and all of these people things, deals, processes to oversee.

If a system can scan those and alert you, flag things so you can prioritize your time. That's very valuable. And that's where, I mean, that's the shortest path to value I see. With ai, at least in the way we're 

[00:47:48] Dan Wagner: using, if you get AI to get people to go down to, to go into the, to their, uh, office buildings and work.

[00:47:55] Andreas Senie: No. Yeah. We'll see. Um, we, you can train AI to do anything. That's the scary part. We need people to go and 

[00:48:02] Chris Abel: work 

[00:48:02] Dan Wagner: at their offices. 'cause we need people to be able to buy lunch and be able to buy their coffee and 

[00:48:08] Andreas Senie: all that. We're gonna, we're gonna convert all those offices into housing. Haven't you heard you've been on the show?

Oh, it's, 

[00:48:13] Anna Maria Kowalik: that's so easy, Dan. 

[00:48:15] Saul Klein: You gotta get the government first to make their people go to work. I hear that DC is like a ghost town, right? All these government offices. And if the government's not doing it, they're the, I read something the other day that said the government's gonna start selling their buildings 

[00:48:29] Dan Wagner: in DC It's unbelievable.

Yeah, it's unbelievable. We gotta get people to work and get 'em to their offices. Our 

[00:48:36] Saul Klein: capital's 

[00:48:36] Anna Maria Kowalik: empty Springfield. Very 

[00:48:39] Andreas Senie: quiet. There is a return to office, right? More and more companies are requiring employees be there instead of two days, three days, four days. I mean, the shift is coming. Um, the overall amount of office that's gonna be needed for companies is obviously reducing, but you know, people do better together, which is why at the end of the day working on AI one-to-one without a collaborative of smart people.

A good network to innovate is where's, where do we go from there? You have to come together. It's proven out. Har Harvard Business did a review, uh, did a study on this. It's why people have to, they can't work from home in the long term. Productivity declines, creativity declines time and time again. So, Andreas, go ahead.

Since we are talking about technology, I was thinking this might be a good time to talk about all of the, uh, our opportunity to go see some emerging technology. At, at that little c e Tech. Oh, we're gonna talk about it. There's shows we have to plug around. So circling and thanks for the prompt. Back to events overall, quite a few were spouted out, uh, earlier on in the show.

C r e Tech New York, the largest and most innovative conference for commercial real estate technology platforms and providers where you will meet the industry's elite investors, operators, and most tech forward innovators. September. Join us. Take advantage of our discount code there reco 20 N y c at the Javit Center and hear from, you know, everyone from Blackstone to C B R E.

To the newest innovations in air quality and thermo and smart controls. I mean, it is such an incredible event. I've been going since the, the event was 80 people. It is now in the Javits Center, which means it's over a thousand people. Wow. Incredible event here in New York. Solemn, a little upset that you're, that you listed a bunch of places and you're not coming to New York to see me in September.

Uh, but that's all right. Second to that C five, you know, c C I M, huge event coming up. Anything, any of the events with n a r, these are all the places you need to be to grow in your network and grow in your knowledge. Right. 

[00:51:16] Dan Wagner: So, and you can hear me on September 29th, talking about the 10 31 with Evan Linard.

[00:51:23] Andreas Senie: Shameless plug.

Uh, I love it. I'll be. Go ahead. I'm gonna be at both. I'm very excited. Awesome. I'm gonna both, I'm New York and Atlanta, 

[00:51:36] Anna Maria Kowalik: so, 

[00:51:37] Andreas Senie: um, I always encourage people to go to as many as is reasonable 'cause there are many, but, uh, you know, for to each his own. Chris, is there a, uh, must attend event on your side if on the construction world 

[00:51:54] Chris Abel: coming up or just in general?

[00:51:55] Andreas Senie: Yeah. I mean, where's the big outside of a, B, C? Right. Here's your shameless plug. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Associated builders and contractors. What's the big event? 

[00:52:04] Chris Abel: Uh, there was just the one down in, in Vegas. We always go to the Vegas vans. Yeah, I don't even remember the, the name of it, but I know that, um, the majority of my industry was down there and I was, I had a couple smaller things up, up here, so I will, I will double check on that and I'll let you know.

But as far as on the, uh, a, b, C side things, we have the Northeast Regional Conference coming up, um, towards the end of September. And as far as locally, we have another bruise of builders up in your neck of the woods, Andrea. So hopefully we'll see you out there. I'll get you the date for that. And then we have, um, oh, uh uh, new England Women in Construction Summit.

Is coming up. I, on September 15th, keynote speaker is e Elizabeth Smart, um, abduction survivor and new a, b, c news contributor. Um, and ABC is a, a proud partner of that. So I will be at that event and it, it's just a full calendar. It's a full calendar. It's, it's, it's exciting stuff to be out there and, you know, and if there's not an event going on, it's almost like I'm making some sort of event, whether it's.

Getting some members out for lunch or whatever the case is. There's just, everyone's into it. Everyone's into networking, everyone's into grabbing a cup of coffee, grabbing lunch. Everyone's kind of, it's exciting stuff. 

[00:53:27] Andreas Senie: It's gonna be never say no to a free lunch. Right. Especially commercial real estate.

Yeah. You don't know where that relationship will go and what path it can take you to profitability. And look at this call a lot of each one of us with our own different, uh, interests and areas. How, how many ways have we crossed over and referred to each other? I can count 10 to each of you. Yeah. Easily without talking about Jonathan Stein, you know, 50 there.

Um, and, and so Saul, on your side, I mean, you've been to events big and small. RESO is a, is a hot topic on the data side and standard side globally. What is the biggest event you would encourage entrepreneur, uh, younger commercial real estate professionals. And by younger, I mean newer to the profession?

Well, there's 

[00:54:17] Saul Klein: no any age. Yeah. There's no doubt in my mind that the best one you could attend is the National Association of Realtors Expo. Once a year. It's huge. It's 40, 50,000. It's gigantic. Giant trade show takes you a couple days to get through it. And, uh, so if I were new and in California this year, and I think it's in November, I would certainly attend that one.

If you're in the m l S world, uh, council of multiple listing service, C M L S is in New Orleans, as I mentioned and learn everything you need to know about multiple listing services in the future of multiple listing services. And if you're, again, in California, c a r California Association, rose has 200 thousands or so, realtors, their show's always a big show.

But there's a big show in every state, every year 

[00:55:01] Andreas Senie: and big regional shows, right? Yes. So, There's certainly plenty out there. I, I do have to give a quick shout out. I see Marty Norcutt out of Chicago mentions j l l, so I will expand on that. J L L C B R E, CoStar, major, major corporations and vendors all throw events to help educate and help.

Yep, bring it forward. Uh, Anna Maria, what's the big one for C ae? Is there an event for C AE or? Well, 

[00:55:29] Anna Maria Kowalik: uh, we've had industry conferences that have already, uh, been completed this year. However, um, uh, in the sustainability area, there's the U S G B C conference at the end of September in Washington DC this year.

Um, in, uh, Chicago. We're going to have, uh, I C S C, uh, uh, Midwest region. Uh, I think they're calling it the central conference. And then, um, if anyone's in Chicagoland area as well and wants to attend Chicago Build, uh, expo, um, is is always a great program with a lot of wonderful vendors to learn from and, uh, some great panel discussions.

So, um, You know, there, there's always a, a set of places that you can go. And Inland is sponsoring a, uh, CoStar event next week. So, um, uh, right on our campus. So anybody who's interested in getting the latest market information, 

[00:56:33] Andreas Senie: so there's really no excuse, uh, as far as getting educated and having a network.

If you put in a little work, spend a little time. Amen. Yeah. And that, and that really is the crux of the argument. Put in the work. Get on the phone. I will, uh, I'm gonna go back to what you said before, Dan. You looked up the owner's name and you called him on a telephone, and I talked about this last show.

Get on the phone and call people. Please don't text. It's terrible. It's driving me insane from a business standpoint. That being said, um, we've given conference recommendations, association recommendations. What's the one thing you want to give to our audience? Around the room, Dan, after you, 

[00:57:17] Dan Wagner: the three S's, uh, in real estate right now that are doing great student housing, self-storage, and senior 

[00:57:23] Chris Abel: housing.

[00:57:24] Andreas Senie: There you go. Really? You're gonna bring up self-storage with the recent consolidation and now, now at the end. But yes, next month we're gonna talk about that more back up collaboration. I actually wrote it down long before you mentioned it, Andreas, but collaborate with people in other businesses, other parts of your industry.

Like we talk every month here. Make sure that you are widening your circle to include additional people that don't do what you do. It will pay out in spades. And, and, and you don't just mean like a B N I or a Toastmasters. You mean? Actu you know, don't go into, I think, let me. Uh, don't go into it because you're looking for a referral.

Go into it because you're looking to learn and grow and then see what happens. Exactly. Yes. Which is a, which is a mistake. I see some professionals here, they're like, oh, I'll, I'll go right into that B and I 'cause I'm guaranteed business. No, you're guaranteed business if you show up anywhere, but you have to show up.

Chris, how on, uh, what's the one takeaway for you, sir? Yeah, 

[00:58:31] Chris Abel: I would say, um, you know, the biggest thing in the construction side thing is managing expectations. You know, the owner should be, man, you know, as far as, um, the subcontractors should be managing the GC and CMMS expectations. The GCs and CMMS should be constantly in, uh, in communications with the owner.

You know, there's, there's a lot of different stuff over there. You know, you got these, these, you know, rooftop systems that are starting to come in, um, from 45 and, and, and 60 weeks a year out from when they were ordered and they're starting to get put in. That doesn't mean that. Um, you know, every piece of equipment is coming in that they, they ordered.

So everyone needs to kind of manage expectations with on the jobs. And then, uh, last thing is, uh, Conex. Conex is the big, the, the big, uh, the huge construction trade. So I think it's like every two or three years in Vegas. So, um, that's the big one, but pretty much it. 

[00:59:27] Andreas Senie: Fantastic. And Saul, what's, what's the one suggestion you have for the industry at a whole?

In as a whole? 

[00:59:35] Saul Klein: Uh, I would, uh, say maybe, uh, walkability. Walkability, right And place matters. Place 

[00:59:45] Andreas Senie: matters. Oh, location, location, location. I'm sorry. Is that what you said? 

[00:59:50] Saul Klein: Another way to say that. Right. But now, instead of, uh, drive till you 

[00:59:54] Andreas Senie: qualify. 

[00:59:55] Saul Klein: Yeah. Now you know everything in one spot. Walkability, pay attention to it.

Opportunities will, will spring up that you never thought would be there. All based on this concept of walkability. 

[01:00:08] Andreas Senie: Well, and which is an old idea. And, and, and you like Dan here, you're gonna bring up walkability and, and transit oriented development at the end. We're gonna come back to that one next month because there's so much we can talk to.

Uh, uh, Anna Maria, what's the, from this 

[01:00:26] Anna Maria Kowalik: optimist, the future is green.

[01:00:33] Andreas Senie: Well, um, I guess I'll finish up by saying, you know, uh, companies are their own economies. Don't get caught up in the headlines. And to parrot everyone on this call, uh, people need to apply themselves, educate themselves, and understand the loans, the rates, the risks, and the regulations, because business will get done if you collaborate with the right people and show up at the right events.

I think I summarized everyone. Oh, and don't forget to look into 10 31 exchange. Got it. Here you go. Mr. Mendoza, will you lead us out? I do want to thank our audience and everyone who tunes in religiously every month. Please do rate review us to you, sir.

Thanks for tuning into the Real Estate Roundtable, Howard Barra ai, your source for the latest in real estate and technology for past episodes, sector interviews, and more great content. Follow us on all social media and YouTube at CRE Collaborative. You can also find us anywhere you listen to podcasts.

Please like, subscribe, and share. It really does help. Thanks again for tuning in and we'll see you at the next real estate round table.