The Roundtable_02-06-25_Audio

[00:00:00] Andreas Senie: Welcome back to this month's Roundtable, your all in one comprehensive view of what's happening across the real estate industry, straight from some of the industry's earliest technology adopters and foremost experts in technology, marketing, brokerage, government policy, capital construction, and cyber security.

As always, this is a three part show. Part one, introductions and what's new for each of our roundtable hosts in their business sector. Part two, sector focus when we unpack and dig deep into the industry's biggest news and paradigm shifts. And part three, what does it mean for your business and how to outpace your competition in the next 30 days.

I'm Andreas Senni, founder, CRE Collaborative, brokerage owner, and commercial director of KW Commercial. Joining me this month is none other than Saul Klein. MLS expert, CEO, San Diego Multiple Listing Service, Realtor Emeritus, and the list goes on. Saul, always a pleasure to see you. Welcome back. Always good to be back.

Always good to be back. We're coming, 100 episodes come December. The audience keeps growing and the show is just, it's my favorite time of month. Also joining us, Rebecca Carlson, founder, CEO of Carlson Integrated, past president of NICAR, brokerage owner herself. Becca, always a pleasure to have you on the show.

Welcome back. And last but certainly not least this month, Chris Abel, the newly promoted, you heard it here first, VP of the Associated Builders and Contractors Association's Connecticut chapter. 

[00:02:07] Chris Abel: Awesome. Thank you. It's good to be back. 

[00:02:08] Andreas Senie: We've seen you. We've got a lot of questions. It's a lot going on in labor costs and different things.

[00:02:14] Chris Abel: Oh, there's so much going on. But yeah, it's good to be back. Good to be back. 

[00:02:18] Andreas Senie: Welcome back. Um, Dan Wagner will back with us next month, next month, as well as Darren Hayes, Anna Maria, uh, will be joining us in the future. I want to thank our audience. I want to thank our producer who is just about to release edge of hope directed by Dudley Alexi.

He makes us all look good. I can only assume his movies look even better. So thank you again, Mr. Mendoza for making us look good and all you do in the industry to my right. So what's the latest and greatest out of San Diego. What's going on in your sector. 

[00:02:48] Saul Klein: Yeah, well, you know, San Diego is one of those places that it seems like doesn't change all that much.

I will say this though, I got my checks from the car wash yesterday, they're up 628 percent from last January. 628? 628 percent. So what that tells me is that last January it rained a lot. 

[00:03:08] Andreas Senie: How about the year before that? Let's go two years back. 

[00:03:11] Saul Klein: Yeah, well, last year was low. It's still, we're about 300 percent over the previous year.

We also raised the price just a little bit. So, you know, car wash, one of those kinds of businesses, it's like a coin up business, and there are different ways to increase your. Your um, your gross you can raise the price or you can Decrease the time and more cars Will some percentage of increase in the gross revenues, right so Um, we raised just a little bit.

We didn't, Bob, this time we didn't lower the time. But it's kind of an interesting lesson, right? There are different ways to get what you need. And, uh, sometimes they're less obvious than others. So you could take a minute off the car wash time, or you can increase it by 25 cents. And, 

[00:04:00] Andreas Senie: you know, it's Well, so that's, that's an age old lesson.

That's quantity over Quality or quality over quantity. Did you increase your expense? Was that more staff or just staff moving faster or just an increase in price? 

[00:04:13] Saul Klein: Yeah, good point didn't increase the staff at all Okay Yeah, you can see the car wash. It's one of those coin op things So the news here in san diego is we had a dry and everybody knows this we had california.

We had a very dry January. 

[00:04:28] Andreas Senie: Well, I've had a very wintry northeast. You know, I think it's tough right now, but my car is very dirty on that. Well, 

[00:04:33] Saul Klein: we need to come wash your car. So we end up with four fires and we had the big one up in north of us here and a terrible situation. And a lot of it has to do with the fact that no rain.

And, uh, and then of course you couple that with, uh, the, uh, Santa Ana winds that we have, and that keeps things burning for quite a while. And if you think about that from a real estate perspective, you think of all of those homes that burned down and that's terrible tragedy. And at the same time, think about all the realtors and real estate professionals who are in a living, selling homes, their inventory is gone and their inventory is not going to come back.

For a while. And so, you know, a number of issues now, hopefully what we'll end up seeing is a lot of construction, uh, Chris, and there'll be a lot of building going on. And, uh, eventually the, the there'll be things for realtors and real estate professionals to sell again. But that's not going to happen immediately.

[00:05:36] Andreas Senie: Eventually, realtors, those homeowners need to sell their insurance. There's always opportunity. It's just pockets up. Where are they, where can they sell? And while they're limited by their license and geographic area, um, we're a resilient bunch. It's brokers, right? We'll 

[00:05:50] Saul Klein: keep moving. We'll find something. No, but it's interesting, right?

So yes, you're absolutely right. You're licensed by state. Jurisdictions for real estate license are by state. And what we tell people who have real estate licenses is don't try to sell real estate in areas you're not familiar with. And so while I have a real estate license in the state of California, and I've had it for almost 50 years, I can go anywhere in the state and sell real estate.

I would not do that. But my license allows me to do another great point just because you can doesn't mean you should 

[00:06:22] Andreas Senie: oh Yeah, I'd like to take audience tuned in every month to this show and they can tune in elsewhere And they should tune in here and they do so we love that. That's an angel. That's a chat is certainly a well learned lesson The commercial world and residential world your license also doesn't differentiate between residential commercial you can sell both In almost all 50 states.

Should you? Do you have the knowledge? Do you have the boots on the street intellect and intelligence that you need? Most often not. Our audience knows this more so than most. Chris, right? Commercial, we don't have an influence. We don't have a unified system. Or in your case, I think there are 400 now across the U.

S. that kind of talk to each other, the reso standards. Commercial is still 29 platforms. Broad and half the market is still offline. You literally can't operate whether you can or can't license wise without that knowledge So california and my heart and prayers go out to everyone in california and florida We seems like we've had a lot of disasters recently, but there's always an upside there's tomorrow And there's 628 increase in car wash revenue for saul.

So you should be buying car washes clearly. 

[00:07:30] Chris Abel: There you go 

[00:07:31] Andreas Senie: There's the pocket Chris i'm going to go over to you. It's been that long since we've seen you just got promoted to vp Over associated builders and contractors. I've got construction concerns. I've got labor concerns. I've got cost concerns. I don't know what spin back is going to put on it once you answer, but what's going on on your side of the fence?

[00:07:50] Chris Abel: So you're joined, joined the crowd, joined the crowd. I pretty much have all the same concerns you have, but, uh, nowhere near as much as our, uh, The contractors out there have there's a there's stacks of stuff going on. I mean, um, right now in Connecticut, we're in the middle of a very long legislative session.

Actually, I should say, we're at the beginning of a very long legislative session. There are a lot of things being floated around. You know, I represent the, uh, the voice of the merit shop contractors. There's a lot of play cards going on right now that are pointed You know, being played right into, uh, into the hands of the labor side of things.

Um, so we're dealing with things like apprenticeship ratio and stuff like that, the local level. And then at the higher level, um, you know, it was estimated earlier this week that in 2025 we're down, we're seeking around 440, I think it was 439, 000 workers in the industry. And, um. We're already looking at about 500, 000.

I think the exact number is 499, 000 in 2026 and hiring has slowed down a ton. And I know the hiring has slowed down a ton, not only because there aren't as many people going into that field or into that workforce, but also these, um. You know, the effects of some of these executive orders on immigration have a lot to do with it.

Also, um, you know, something I'll be talking about when we get to the end with our, you know, kind of our piece of advice. But, uh, you know, contractors need to be taking all their precautions during their hiring processes. They need to be using an event. They verify system. It's bad enough when they're, these contractors are wasting time and wasting money, making hires that aren't lasting as long as they'd like them to last.

Or in some cases, um, maybe they were a good fit for the job, but then they get a sparkly carrot. Of a few thousand dollars from another company across the street to drag over a project engineer, drag over, take an assistant project manager and say, Hey, we'll give you the PM title and we'll give you, you know, 3, 000 more dollars and they're gone.

Now they are dealing with the idea of, um, you know. Some of their workers. I mean, just basically getting picked up and, you know, being a, uh, 

[00:10:05] Andreas Senie: void in the works. 

[00:10:06] Chris Abel: Yeah, yeah. You know, there's, so, there's a lot of, uh, there's a lot going on right now. Um, you know, the new, the executive orders in general, just kind of, you know.

It's not, it's a political thing, but I'm not talking from a, Hey, who are you for? Who are you with? It's just that things are coming in fast and furious. So it seems like the contractors that are still kind of doing well are just like, you know what? Let me get my, my nose to the grindstone. I don't know if what I voted for is good for me or bad for me.

I was going in regardless. We didn't really have much of a, you know. There were a lot of things that merit shop contractors thought were going to happen on day one or day two, and they've yet to happen. So, and they're waiting to see if those things are going to happen and all signs are kind of, kind of pushing towards, Hey, administration is moving on to other stuff.

Big stuff. We're going to start swinging the hammer and keep going and keep going. And then the, the, the merit shop side of things might be kind of left behind where they're, Hey, they're kind of floating along and doing what they've always been doing and they're not getting, not that they're getting, um, penalized, but getting a little more disregard, you know, just not taking care of like they thought they would have.

So they're kind of on their own. You know kind of on their own out there, which is something I talked about Months and months and months and months ago where there wasn't a candidate that was straight, you know, here's the union Candidate and here's the merit shop candidate. There was a definitely a blurred line That's been that way for probably about eight or nine years at the top of the top of the food chain so, um, I think most of the contractors i i'm working with They're really worried about what's going on locally first, more than anything.

And that's probably where they need to be paid. Sick leave has changed in Connecticut, big, huge issues there. Um, the apprenticeship ratio is a continuous battle. It's a three to one. So for every licensed trade that you have, every license you basically there's three apprentices per for each one. Where it could easily be a one to one ratio or even a one to two would definitely help So you have a lot of apprentices that want to get into the field They've done all their training and they're studying but they can't get their their their hours In the field in because they can't get hired because there's not enough license There 

[00:12:40] Andreas Senie: they need the mentorship because trades still require it.

You can't yeah show up. Yeah, there's no youtube university in that regard 

[00:12:47] Chris Abel: Well, yeah when it comes to when it comes to a licensed trade No, absolutely not, you know, and then the other side you get unlicensed trades like carpentry where there there isn't a license For it and you know if you go through see that movie money pick construction Yeah, you can yeah, there you go.

There you go. You could you could basically pick you could basically Stay what you need to say But at the end of the day if someone takes a shot and hires you you could You got to be able to perform or you got to be trainable to perform And if you're not then they just wasted time and money on that on that hire so a lot of challenges for contractors, um, we can get into more of the building stuff as as needed as we go, but it's uh, And our members need help.

I remember you just need help. And, uh, you know, that's why they promoted you to hell. Yeah, well, actually they promote me. Cause I was like, listen, I am not going back on the Royal state round table until you promote me. And they're like, fine. No, but, uh, it's, it's, it makes the job fun though. It does make the job fun.

When there's questions being asked that you may not know the answer to, but they're relying on you. And you could say, you know what, let me dig into this for you. It's nice to be a resource, 

[00:14:01] Andreas Senie: right? It's, it's stretching. It's never been the smartest guy in the room. 

[00:14:04] Chris Abel: Exactly. So if I learn, if I learn once, then I can push it to the next, the next contractor who needs it.

So it's, it's been interesting. 

[00:14:16] Andreas Senie: And you talked, you talked a lot about the macro effect of the administration, a lot like the weather and Saul's carwash and productivity than being hyper focused on the local level. You threw out a sign guy with the spinning, flipping signs, Dalton, maybe you're up 800%.

That's a marketing question. There you go. Hey! Took my lead there, Becca. Oh, it all comes full circle. Well, it's all messaging in the end, right? 

[00:14:42] Chris Abel: It is. It is so messaging. Becca, this is right up your alley. I'm telling 

[00:14:47] Andreas Senie: you things in the marketing world. 

[00:14:50] Bekah Carlson: So things have been really busy. And a piece that has surprised me a little bit pleasantly, quite frankly, is the number of offering memorandums we've been pulled into in the past several weeks that are in kind of that five to 15 million all around the country.

And we've had clients closing on commercial deals all around the country. So what felt kind of like it was frozen. In commercial real estate investment is at least loosening a bit and that is always something that makes me very happy. My developer clients talked about the phone call. You know, the phone starting to ring in November.

Um, what we do know, right? Is that uncertainty? Damages everything. Uncertainty leads to, like, standstill in the industry, in all industry, and so as people kind of navigate the executive orders and some deals die because of the executive orders, we have an M& A. Client who like suddenly private equities, not buying businesses where there's any questions, where they discovered that they're, you know, it's entirely government contracts for, for instance.

Well, what does that mean? If a business is all of their businesses, a hundred percent government contracts, can they close? Well, I don't know, it makes a private equity company go, well, maybe we wait a little while. So we see some people pushing pause on deals periodically, but commercial real estate, if brokers are confident enough to be building these OMS and putting things on the market, that's a good sign in commercial real estate that things are going to loosen up because regardless of whether we like things or not, on the political standpoint, we're at least things are happening and we are getting some guidance.

May not be the guidance that we want whatsoever, but it means that people feel like that, like there's going to be transactions in the future. 

[00:16:58] Andreas Senie: I'll echo that. Right. So there's high octane capital out there looking, the institutions are off the sidelines of my team here in Connecticut. I mean, we are, we're Thriving.

Speaking of high octane capital, Luke Klein just messaged in out of the Manhattan office. We're out and we're busy. The brokers that are out there and busy are very, very busy. And it's been said to me once or twice, well, where are you getting your deal flow from? Well, it's the basics. It's running through what's tried and true.

It's your network. It's referrals, it's repeat, and it's good old fashioned sourcing. Speaking of sourcing of network and repeat and solid, I'm going to unfairly bring this one over to you. I just came across my attention the other day. There's a company called Top Offer out there and I got to ask. There you are, San Diego, the MLS, you've got the, the housing issue, going to have construction issues, right?

Given the labor costs, here's the system that promises to allow or give transparency to buyers by letting the buyers put the offers forward all on their own, very similar to an auction. Buyer broker is almost pulled out of it in the sense of everything's filled out online. The owner clicks a box, whether or not he wants to show competing offers to all of the offering parties residentially.

This is the residential thing. I believe one of the major houses just picked it up exclusively on the buy side. And I just think, you know, like many things, it removes this, the conversation face to face. I'm curious to see what, what's going on there in San Diego, what your thought is. 

[00:18:30] Saul Klein: Well, interesting.

First of all, you said something that kind of rang a positive bell for me. I want to put this sign up on the car wash. I've wanted to do this for years. Lather, rinse, repeat. With a QR code to the round table. Becca, that's like, would you like fries with that, right? Right. Opportunity sales. So, I've not heard of the company, but If you think about the, the idea of a consumer being involved in a purchase of a piece of real property, even with AI, which I'm a very big proponent of all of the details and the intricacies involved, I'm not so sure that it will.

Take off. However, we're kind of spoiled in real estate. The last 15 years you didn't have to know anything or do anything to be able to sell property, so you really didn't have to be that skilled. All you had to do was be able to meet people and find something that's for sale or find somebody who's interested.

And your skills, the things you needed to know were very limited. And again, we were kind of spoiled. So if you start to look at, and inventories are very tight, right? So you start to look at though, at the, at an actual transaction and look at, because of the attack on compensation on the buy side. You're going to need as a real estate professional to be able to sell yourself because it got these kinds of services out there where people think they can do all this on their own.

And so before we're as a real estate professional, I didn't have to look very deep into the transaction to figure out how I could save. Where can I save money? As a matter of fact, if you think about the real estate transaction, the way it had been set up historically, it's kind of like the listing agent has a direct relationship with the seller and the best interest of the real estate agent aligns with the best interest of the seller.

Because the seller wants the most amount of money and the real estate agent makes the most amount of money the higher the sale So there's a line but on the buy side that alignment there isn't that alignment it's reversed And so the buyer wants to get it for as low as possible And I know the real estate professional wants to do the very best they can but the fact is The higher the price the property goes for the more money the agent because there's not an alignment there.

Then you throw on top of that the DOJ and the Sitzer Burnett case and the MLS Penn case and all this litigation that's taking place. You're going to have to work harder to be able to prove your value. Now, as long as the inventories are low, it kind of covers a lot of stuff, right? It hides a lot. But when you get back to at some point in time where you've got normal inventories, you're going to have to prove your worth.

And as I've been looking at this lately, one of the things that I'm starting to rediscover is there's ample opportunity to make clear to a buyer. How much value you bring specifically and even attach dollar amounts to it. 

[00:21:50] Andreas Senie: A la carte pricing. You're talking about a change up in how we're 

[00:21:53] Saul Klein: compensated. And not even, it could be a la carte price.

It doesn't even have to be a la carte pricing. Can't just be, I want, uh, what do you think you should pay for the property? Here's what I think we can get it for. And, uh, you'll pay me half of the difference of the in between. And so there isn't that, that would be a net lease 

[00:22:11] Andreas Senie: on the, on the list side. Can't do it.

[00:22:13] Saul Klein: Kind of like, yeah, almost right. So, but you got to look to the opportunities that are there because we're being forced into new circumstances and new situations and new innovations and new models. Which should get everybody thinking about it, and even if you never went to a situation where your fee becomes based on the savings that you can bring in the negotiation, and not only, see, all we've had to do is negotiate for the sale price, and then we kind of negotiated a little bit on the escrow provider and the title company, of course all titles are the same, right?

And but what else there are other things if you start to look at the intricacies of a transaction where you actually could Begin to save the buyer money and as you Do that whether or not you're compensated or not you're showing your value And and as you start to show that it might make buyers aware of the fact that I thought this was really easy But you're starting to point things out to me That I never thought of before.

And yeah, I could go up to this new, innovative real estate brokerage model and you know, do it myself. But now that I've had a conversation with a real estate professional who really made me aware of all of the points of negotiation, which we don't think about in this market where we've been spoiled because the only thing people focus on is price.

And they think all negotiation takes place around one thing, the sale price. When in fact, there are many things, as you know, that you can negotiate around. So, um, I have not heard of them. I wish them well. And at the same time, I don't think that they're going to be the savior of people who list and sell real estate.

Well, 

[00:23:55] Andreas Senie: and you said it, right? So you don't know what you don't know. If we as real estate professionals as trusted advisors, especially commercially, there are 16 professionals coming together in a transaction. There are many moving parts. I jokingly tell my clients it's my job to herd the cats, right? I gotta keep herding you all the way through start to finish.

Construction, architecture, permitting, all of it. I'm not the architect. I won't figure that out for you, but I gotta understand it enough to guide you to the right place. You know, that's talking about the 10 percent making 90 percent of the income right actually doing the job as opposed to what you said earlier Just letting people in it's easy.

I would argue. It's very hard no matter how much marketing I put on it No matter how good my contract It's it's it is very hard. It's a lot of hours and on the commercial side. It's nine to five hours It's the 2080 golden hours if you take a two week vacation 

[00:24:49] Saul Klein: So before you go on and Andrea said I mentioned this been the pre show.

Have you seen this? uh company odyssey and I thought that that was kind of an interesting where they um, Kind of part of this idea is finding a neighborhood where people have the same political beliefs you do Now, I'm not

[00:25:10] Andreas Senie: sure how that goes steering in the residential world. Isn't that well, they 

[00:25:15] Saul Klein: have a website and they're in business and I've read some articles about them.

And, um, and they also say you can find a neighborhood has the same kind of dogs you have 

[00:25:24] Andreas Senie: or 

[00:25:25] Saul Klein: right. Well, that's, that's data. 

[00:25:28] Andreas Senie: Sure. So much data places was doing was going along this line. Yeah. National Association of Realtors, Realtor Property Resource. They have an incredible tapestry and segmentation data of markets.

Uh, in fact, I know you use this on the marketing end, how to target people, how to isolate the right people at the right time. Chris, I'm sure even the construction industry does the same. Where am I buying? What am I buying? There's so much tech out there in that regard. I have not seen Odyssey. I'm curious.

I would love to live in a neighborhood of all Havanese dogs. That's my dog. There you go. And that's perfect for me. Is that a, and was that because of your tie to San Diego MLA or just something you came across in general? 

[00:26:12] Saul Klein: Just something that I just came across and as I looked at it, I'm not so sure that, um, steering people by political affiliation is a violation of any HUD regulation.

Right. I'm not sure that, that, that, that political views are protected classes. I, I haven't figured that piece out 

[00:26:34] Andreas Senie: yet. So here we are, we're out there. We're, we're trying to get business. We have new tech at us all the time. Marketing is doing a good job, right? Brokerage is busy, construction busy. Chris, you pointed out that there's a void.

I've actually heard more conversation on my end, and I think it's a short term void, which is why I bring it up, that even if, if this labor pool has a shortage, there's so many more people going into the trades than once were. Candidly, I wish that brokerage had that same restriction that you had to journey, right?

You had to be an apprentice Yeah, that would be amazing. We don't uh, so you're seeing the same there will be an influx no matter what It's just a question of timing. How long do you have to journey? How long do you have to apprentice before you get a license? 

[00:27:21] Chris Abel: Well, I know in in connecticut to the license trade It's like a four.

It's basically a four for you. It ends up being basically like a four year Deal for the most part. Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. I mean, but it's all it all depends on how people do it You know if you go to You can go to a career training school for you know, 15 18 months But if you're not working In the field at that time, you're not getting your on the job training hours And you might be at school all day long.

I used to work for a school where, yeah, the students were like, Oh, this is great, you know, an 18 month, but then there, you know, and then you have a school, like we have a training arm, uh, attached to our chapter where it's a four year program. Sometimes people call them like, Oh, four years. That's what's, but it's an earn while you learn program.

So the idea is that you don't sit home all day or you don't get a job at a grocery store all day or a family business all day. And then come to school at night. The idea is you get locked in with a company that has you as a registered apprentice and you're doing paid on the job training paid hours on the job hours during the day.

And then you come to school like one night a week and then you do your online study. So after four years you are, if you're doing it right after four years, a lot of these employers are going to help pay for it. If not pay for the whole thing, you might already be sitting in your own truck. Um, You might even basically be set up.

Hey, once you get your license, you're going to be leading a crew. I mean you got a lot of benefits there. It's just a lot of people going into it I know from when I used to speak at the high schools It's the idea of seeing the longterm and seeing, like, I can tell you right now, my friends who went into the trades and didn't go off to college, pretty much all of them have whatever toys they really want.

They have the four and six car garages. They have their tinker toys that they want to play with their boats and their trucks and whatever they have, what they want, they have the house. Plus they can do the majority of the work on the houses. Or they know people that can um, mind you that was you know a long time ago But now it's very tough to tell a and i'm talking about high school students But tell a 17 18 year old like listen by the time you're 23 or 24 I mean really what you need what they need to do is talk to some of these these owners in these higher ups in the construction Business to say hey listen by the time you're this age All my employees i've been with me x amount of years.

They're rolling in with trucks that are you know Yeah, and things like that. And, um, but I also see some, I've seen some odd things and I might have mentioned this in a previous show. I've seen some odd things at the schools here where, um, you know, some of the schools here will have, these are technical schools.

I have these really nice technical high school programs and these kids are going through the program, but they'll also have. The ups is in the fedex's and the amazon's in the world coming in and doing career days or interview Days in the school which these kids are going and they're going to be an electrician And then they do a let's say an amazon day And they get a little signing bonus and they get 20 22 dollars an hour and next thing, you know, they're working there They graduate with that Certificate all they have to do is do more on the job training hours at that point And they just stick, stick it out with the Amazon or the FedEx job.

Now, mind you, a lot of them are in sections and areas of the state where you don't know their background. They might need that money to help pay for, you know, their family or rent or whatever the case is, but they don't stay the course. And then a few years later they come back and they show their, Oh, look, I went for electrical work.

Yeah. But you haven't done anything electrical in five years since you got out of high school. What have you been up to? Oh, I've been working at UPS. Okay. Well, Now we got to go back to the drawing board. Cause you got to go back and get those, like now you're a 25 year old apprentice. So, and then they're stuck like, okay, do I stick with a factory job, a warehouse shop, or do I, it's, it's, it's, I will say the numbers of apprentices and the numbers of people going to school right now, coming in, like we, our school in particular, like we, uh, space is an issue.

Like we are literally, we're maxing out a year on top of year. It is good. Is a good thing. It's just. There certain things, 

[00:31:53] Andreas Senie: it'll be a dip and over the long term that that dip will be filled. Yeah. And, 

[00:31:57] Chris Abel: and, and, and they'll also help in regards to, um, those, those persons going into it also help in regards to their debt.

They won't have that debt. School 

[00:32:06] Andreas Senie: loans, no, they different loans, I should say. 

[00:32:09] Saul Klein: Yeah. Chris, you make a great point. I think, and it's kind of like this stick to it. Yeah, that when you begin something, particularly something that has to do with schooling, it's easy to get distracted for a lot of reasons. And one could definitely be family and obligations and commitments.

You're probably, it's probably if you look back on your life over 20, 30, 40, 50 years, you, you realize that it's easier to actually stick to it until you finish, rather than take time off thinking Yeah. That you're gonna get back into it and finish it at some point in time. 

[00:32:48] Chris Abel: Sure. Absolutely. And that's, and that's definitely, uh.

You know, that's when I spoke in high schools, that's something I used to push all the time. The idea of, you know, here's, here's where you can be and here's how you can get there. The nice thing about construction is you could go to college or not, and you could still find the path to be at the top. And I see it every single day.

I get the stories of, I know one, uh, owner. They basically go into the ground. If it's in the ground, that's what they're dealing with. Okay. They're dealing with water. They're doing one pipe and they do it. And. He's he's an engineer by trade, but he grew up doing that stuff next to his father. So you have them and then Where he can handle both both sides of the spectrum and he's at the top of the food chain And then I know uh some that you know, maybe they have a high school degree from a technical high school Maybe took a few business classes or at least we're around the right people and they're the owners also And uh, trust me when I see the cards the cards pull into the parking lot for board meetings and things of that nature You can tell they're they're all right.

They're doing okay, you know, and they're happy and they seem to be Rounded too. 

[00:33:59] Andreas Senie: Uh, so output not hours. Academically, they, they get it. They learn the skill. They apply the skill, and they grow. Uh, sell, assault, uh, ePRO. That was your baby. You've gone marketing and your institutional real estate white brokerage to marketing back and forth.

I think this holds true across the line, right? Uh, degrees aren't what they once were, or rather we're back swinging in the pendulum to say, Hey, if you've got the skills and you know what, you know. And we'll, we're willing to pay you all except for the buyer broker on the resi side, we want to shortcut you.

So, um, uh, but as we move forward here, it's 6 35. So the biggest news in paradigm shifts, I'm hearing, uh, construction, right. That we have a pending labor shortage potentially Uh that costs have gone up. Is that a is that a fair statement because they did dip last quarter now They're headed back up the costs Yeah 

[00:34:57] Chris Abel: Yeah, yeah, it's it's going up, you know, and then there's also fear that some of these tariffs are gonna are gonna cause some issues there too, but No, it's been interesting is, um, falls kind of more into back into your, your ranges.

Uh, I ran into an issue the other day where, um, a company had not won a job and the company, they lost it to a, um, a joint venture. So those two companies in the joint venture got very creative. To kind of put together two sides. I don't have all the details. I don't know anything about it, but obviously the, it was a size thing instead of taking the giant, you know, the giant company, they went with two smaller companies to kind of make up the giant company, obviously, uh, through their proposal, through their marketing, through everything they could bring to the table.

They won, they won it. And that was something I found interesting. And one thing I found interesting, and this is where it falls into kind of Becky, your, your, your realm, and you find it kind of interesting is one of those companies basically said, Hey, listen, their marketing is off, off. It's amazing. Their whole imaging and everything.

Listen, if you can kind of work with us a little and match up where we are here, here and here in regards to your marketing, we know you can do the work, but we need you to basically look better on the onset. So when we walk in, we look a little more uniform. They know we're two different companies, but if we go in and it shows that we put the effort into Coming in as a true team and it's not just two logos next to each other.

It is, you know, lock, stock and barrel, look what we can do, look what they can do. And from what I heard, that was kind of what pushed them kind of over the top. One of the companies really upgraded all their, their, their marketing to kind of match what they can actually do. And they probably went with the same company.

The other one went, I found that really interesting because that's innovative to me. Um, and quite frankly, it was a marriage shop. It was a marriage shop and a union company on the merger. 

[00:37:04] Bekah Carlson: It matters, right? Like public perception of your company is based on what they find. In your company materials and your company look and feel and brand and kind of that public imaging pieces, people make decisions on how big you are, how creative you are, how responsible you are, like people make really, really big decisions based on how you look, perception and reality.

That line does become very blurred. Perception can be reality. 

[00:37:38] Chris Abel: I found that I found that very, very interesting when I heard that. And it was just a couple of days ago and I was like, Oh, I was like, there's a nice little tidbit to kind of throw in your direction because I thought that was just really, I don't know.

I just I found it very innovative. Where it started with people and then somebody knew somebody in the background on the back of this to say, Hey, here's what we're going to do. Um, these weren't strangers on the back end of things, but you know, whatever they did, the RFP and that proposal, I don't know, they got it done.

[00:38:13] Andreas Senie: Well, to be fair, the app. So, so Chris and I, Chris, we worked on it on your membership and. If anyone is further behind technology wise on the web, on Google, behind the commercial brokerage world and the institutional brokerage world that still may or may not be running on Windows XP, it's the labor stops.

So I mean, there's, there's so much opportunity to increase your profile. And our producer here, he said to me, you can't get to 100 if you don't do the first one. We did the first one. Now we're coming up in the hundreds. So spot on around the, around the table here, getting momentum, just get it started and then, you know, avoid analysis paralysis.

Many people thought that, that the institutions were just sitting there and waiting. The minute certainty. Regardless of your outlook, the minute the election was over, phones started ringing, business started picking up, and that's the biggest change here. Tariffs were touched on briefly. I've had, I'll say at least here in the Northeast, I've had two overseas calls with companies now looking to open manufacturing.

So there are ways around it, but those shifts are causing change. Which is Saul's point. Try a climate. More car washes. How do we take advantage of that? We put the QR code for the round table in front of your car. Watch. That's how we take advantage. I'm not good for, uh, I mean, the MLS MLS is nationwide, but the same, the integrated services, right back to your investment perspectives integrates a bunch of data, right?

We bring value with who we're with and with with the added intelligence questions. Right. So, that being said, what are we seeing coming up, Saul, MLS wise, futurist wise, for you, for part of the founding team for Realtor. com? 

[00:40:03] Saul Klein: Yeah, well, from an MLS perspective, we know that there's been major change in the industry, and one thing that we didn't know exactly how it would shake out, but it's requiring that Agents get a contract signed with a buyer before they tour a property.

And so there are a number of different approaches and ways to do this. And of course, because MLS was an offer of compensation for 30, 35 years, people weren't sure how they were going to do it. But I think that the industry is adapting well. To doing this, to getting an agreement signed, be it an exclusive agreement or an open agreement, be it or per property or for some period of time.

But it seems like people are figuring this out and they're there. They got the stories down so they can convince the buyer that this is the way we do things now. And, uh, at the MLS, we just don't see that much of an issue where we thought we would, as this. Particular case, uh, was settled. And now there are many other cases.

So in the middle effect, the real estate industry, there's a cases around the opposing the what's called the three way agreement, which links the local state national association of realtors together. There's cases that are going after something called the broker dues formula or the designated realtor dues formula, which says that if the broker is a member.

The agents that work for the broker have to be a member of organized real estate. And if they're not, the broker has to pay for that. So, um, lots of litigation out there that'll have some impact. And what we're looking for here at the MLS are tools that can help bring to our users, you know, speed, convenience, choice, value added, what type of technology tools, what can be integrated.

I saw. A look at this for a while now. Great tool. You'd be interested in this, Chris, where it's data. It's all tied to construction costs in the local area, and you can go in and through the use of a I, you can actually look insurance data, right? Be able to pull in information to determine how much it would cost to add an 80 you how much it might cost to add a bedroom, remodel a kitchen, just different uses of the tools.

To be able to bring more value, uh, to the, to the buyers of real estate and even to the sellers. Of real estate. So new technologies allow that, you know, the easy technology and go in with your phone and measure the size of the rooms. You couldn't do that for, um, those kinds of easy types of things, but you'd be surprised how many people haven't adopted those.

So we're looking at those types of things. The industry, real estate, uh, residential side will continue to sell again. What hides the need for more innovation and more change is low inventory. Yeah, because the most important thing becomes is there anything I can buy. 

[00:43:02] Andreas Senie: Well, and that proximity, there's only something you can buy.

Becca's got perspectives on a lot of properties. That's right. Right. We've got 764 million under exclusive rent. That's, that's listings and capital. I mean, there's movements there. It's just pockets of opportunity. 

[00:43:18] Saul Klein: So there's another piece of this whole and it's all data related and that is, and we may have talked about this before, but it's Product mix as cities rebuild.

If you haven't read, uh, re imagining cities. By Cushman, Wakefield, and Places. It's a fascinating piece of work and they're, they're going in and they've analyzed 15 major cities and they look at what's the product, what product mix should you, should you have as a city to increase the value of property, to increase the tax base, which increases the tax revenue.

to the municipality and um, even where we've been talking, we've talked before about converting office space to residential. In some cities that's actually taken place and it seems the key to that is how cheap can you buy the property, right? True. 

[00:44:07] Andreas Senie: So, right, well, cost, the cost, a lot of times costs are prohibitive, right?

They just can't get it done in some of these older buildings, but they're fine. 

[00:44:14] Saul Klein: Something like that. Or you rip the building down then if you can and you build again, but it's all based upon what you can get that property for. That's true. Lots of this going on. People are looking and finding up looking for and finding opportunities and um, and so the residential resale marketplace, there'll be some changes or even generational changes around what people want.

What they're looking for based on how old they are, whether or not they want a car or not, whether or not the government subsidizes, uh, increased density through density bonuses, uh, for people who would live in neighborhoods where there's no off street parking. Uh, there's lots of things going on, right?

Mixed use. All these old ideas are making a comeback. 

[00:45:04] Andreas Senie: Well, they're not all, they're back to basics. It's, it's, under all, it's, it's land, and zoning is how communities plan, right? So the shift is in line with the generational shift, and we have more, to your point, uh, people aging out of the industry, out of the real estate business.

Ownership or brokerage than ever before. So the opportunity is there. Chris, four years from now, we're going to have a lot of youngsters who can't, and this is my tidbit at 645 to the industry, I've had more people say to me, I can't get anyone on the part of my language freaking phone than ever before. I call and call and nobody calls back because regardless of industry, the new generation, the next generation just wants to text or email.

So there's no communication. There's no actual understanding of what's happening outside of the marketing. But that being said, Chris, I'm going to jump over to you at 646. Where are we? What can we do for the next? 30 days. 

[00:46:05] Chris Abel: Honestly, I think the next 30 days or so are going to be, uh, really interesting in regards to what affects, um, what effects administration has, has really, you know, there's a lot of things happened in a flurry.

Okay. Everything happened all of a sudden it was like, okay, new administration, new president coming in wheeling. Here we go. We're going to do, um, the, the. Perception of it is that it's very hard not to think like, Oh my God, that just happened tomorrow. Everything's going to be changed. The reality of it is as quickly as things are being thrown out there, he's not, everything is going to be completely changed and turned upside down overnight.

Things are going to, um, be a little bit. While they're a little bit crazier and things are going to be, you know, but on a daily basis for, for the contractors anyway, on a daily basis, like I, I said at the beginning, my contractors here is start, start local, keep an eye on everything that's going on at the top level.

But stick with what's going on in your local legislative sessions right now, your local government, what's going on within your state and more importantly, within your work areas. I see a lot of contractors starting to shift around and try to work in other States. They all have multiple, multiple, multiple questions about what they need to do in those States.

There's a lot of homework to be done. I commend the contractors that are looking at other States that are willing to do that homework. But at the same time, keep a bird's eye view as to what's going on at the higher level in D. C. But really focus on, because at the end of the day, if you're going to make money or not make money as a contractor, it's going to start with where you're working and your sites.

Your sites are going to be where your sites are going to be. Just because there's a lot going on at the top, that doesn't mean all of a sudden you're not working, in my case, in Connecticut or Massachusetts or that area anymore. So focus on that, focus on safety, invest in safety, invest in marketing, do the things that you can kind of control because at the end of the day, when you, if you're, if you're, if you're a safe contractor and you look good and you're sending people home in one piece at night, you are going to be able to get yourself work.

If you're, if you're on the opposite end. And you all of a sudden start letting up on that that that those key things which I would say safety being the number one And you are not safe and you've become a risk especially as a subcontractor That's the easiest way for general contractors and cms to not use you anymore And then all of a sudden you are forced to start digging into digging um into your wallet for things that quite frankly you don't want to or need to be paying for like more insurance like Law firms to, to defend you over stuff like I think it really has to do with like focus on the sites that you're already on and what's your next site, site by site by site and then let everything at the, at the higher level, you know, control you control, reach out to legislators, do what you want to do, but at the same time realize that these changes, a lot of these changes are going to, if you are looking through the E Verify system and you are taking all your precautions in your hiring process, that's.

Then you shouldn't have to be looking over shoulder every second to know if these immigration executive orders are going to really affect you if you're handling your business the right way. So handle it at home and worry about it, you know, from there and see where everything else is going to, uh, to land.

Uh, it's kind of a state of course in control. You can control type of thing. 

[00:49:56] Andreas Senie: What are the noise from above? Pay attention to the, to the air siren, so to speak. Yeah, 

[00:50:01] Chris Abel: yeah, yeah. Because if you, if you're, if you're. If you're going to the tippy top on this type of stuff, um, you're bound to get yourself more frustrated and, and, and kind of, you want to keep your both hands on the wheel where you're actually driving, um, as opposed to worrying about, you know, What everyone else is doing.

Um, well, and that's, that's my piece of advice. 

[00:50:25] Andreas Senie: Marketing is doing their job. They're just making that message unbearable and you have to pay attention, right? So that's what the flurry was. Flurry of a lot of things happening below was the actual result. What was that 

[00:50:37] Chris Abel: execution? Spike the football and spike the football as much as possible and have your marketing company do it for you if you don't know how to do 

[00:50:45] Andreas Senie: it.

Uh, speaking of marketing, Becca, what's the next 30 days look like for you? I know as a woman owned business, we'll be, we'll be right. You guys are ready to go. This is not as big an issue, but some of the. The product companies are all looking good. Still may be worried. Maybe, maybe not, but what's going on over there.

What's your advice to the industry? 

[00:51:07] Bekah Carlson: So my recommendation to the industry is to prepare, prepare for competition. There is a, been a lot of dry powder on the sidelines. So if you're on the investment space, recognize there's a lot. That there's the deals are coming out, which and there's going to be competition for them.

And that's just a reality in that investment space right now, as people start to get a little bit more secure and deals are closing. The other reminder that I have is that it's very cold now, but convention season's coming. Get your plans in order for your booths and your events and your materials and all the stuff that goes into conventions.

We are talking at ICSC Vegas very much with our clients. We listed out, you know, the 30 or 40 clients that are going to be there in person. And we're trying to figure out, okay, so now we're needing to back up to that scheduling e blast. We do a big lunch in Vegas every year. And that's 

[00:52:12] Andreas Senie: The biggest lunch in Vegas.

The biggest lunch 

[00:52:14] Bekah Carlson: in Vegas, yes. So typically have, you know, around 500 people registered for that every year. All of the promotion for that is going to start in the next few weeks. So it seems like it's far off, but February is a very short month and it is already the 6th. 

[00:52:32] Andreas Senie: Yeah. So this is a monthly show.

And when I just looked up, I went, Oh wow, it's February. You brought up ICC and I went, Oh my God, it's actually February. We're three months out for ICC Vegas. Yeah. Which brings up an interesting point. We talk about this a lot on the show, Network is Now Worth, getting together with your peers, getting into the right rooms, uh, you're on the marketing side, attendance is up, the shows are going, Saul, you've literally been to every state on the road for the same reason.

Becca, your show, your luncheon is growing. Attendance is up. You're already planning. You're already marketing. 

[00:53:05] Bekah Carlson: Already planning. Yeah, 

[00:53:07] Andreas Senie: I see the social posts everywhere, right? Um, Saul You're headed out to shows. Are you going to visit more conferences this year than last year? 

[00:53:16] Saul Klein: Yeah, I just made my list up the other day.

Um, and and so I don't travel as much as I used to And I avoid it at all costs. And still how long is that list? It's really short this year. It's about seven places and the, the benefit and there are huge benefits in going to trade shows and it kind of depends on where you are in your career. And so many of the benefits that that are that you that are within your grasp.

Uh. When you go to these events, for me, that it's greatly diminished for the cost of going because it's not inexpensive to do it. So I think you're right that you got to plan ahead because it's costly and at the same time, you got to take advantage of it. And I know so many people over the years that go to events, but they don't plan before they plan to go.

But then they don't plan or what are we doing on day one? What are we doing on day two? When are we going to get together to talk about what we learned today? And so, yeah, that's great. They go, but they don't get the most out of the shows. Because they don't plan what they're going to do when they're at the show.

And, um, so planning about what you're going to do when you get there, I think is critical and, and so, um, you know, I think right now we, it's like a perfect example of, of the fundamentals of value. And we used to say, until you know, value, everything's worthless. Once you know value, everything has value.

Then my friend of mine, Jack Horton, he says, you can't trade what you can't grade. And so now there's huge opportunities and the there's two. Two sets of elements I think are critical, and the first one is find the opportunity, right, because it's huge. The opportunities are going to be there. So there are four elements of value, and this is real basic, but start to pay attention to the four elements of value.

Demand, utility, scarcity, and transferability. Demand, utility, scarcity, and transferability because value is derived from the elements of value, demand, utility, scarcity, and transferability. And then there are four great forces that influence value. And they're so apparent around us right now, the physical forces, the quality of the conveniences, the schools, the churches, the playgrounds, the physical forces, the social forces.

Maybe being in a neighborhood with people of the same political background as you, I'm not sure. 

[00:55:47] Bekah Carlson: Or dog. Or dog. Or dog. 

[00:55:50] Saul Klein: The economic forces, and what's taking place economically in the society. And then the last one, so apparent right now, and Chris you mentioned it, and that's the political forces. So, the physical, the social, the economic, and the political, combined with the demand, the utility, the scarcity, and the transferability, and I know that's really basic.

But if you start to pay attention to those things, I'd write them down, put them on the wall, look at them every day, understand them and the opportunities will just start popping up. 

[00:56:21] Andreas Senie: A hundred percent. I agree. Um, it's, you know, it's, uh, coach said this to me a long time ago. Uh, no CCMB complaining, criticizing or blaming.

Complainers don't produce and producers don't complain. And, uh, recently I heard another one, you know, disappointment's inevitable. A misery optional, those out there working through it and finding the opportunity, understanding demand, scarcity, supply, availability within reason. So I'm going to, I'm going to quote the age old one hour rule as a broker, but then one hour drive time.

Um, The opportunities are out there, and if there aren't opportunities out there, maybe consider stretching and moving to another specialty. Connecticut has one of the top 10 industrial markets. Rents are declining, but there's a shift. Look at office, we're turning it into apartments. Look at malls and look at mixed use living.

There's so much opportunity out there. Speaking of opportunity, CRE Tech, ICSC, CCIM, C5, I don't, my list is longer than seven. I won't make it to them. But Saul, you've been, you're a realtor emeritus for those that don't know that's 50 plus years as a member of anyone. So you're, you could say your career's hit multiple stages.

You're still going to set this stage. So anyone going to less than that might want to reconsider the account. They're only going to one. And if they're retail, ICFCs, they're definitely the one to be at in Vegas. I know ABC throws on a nice event as well. Mr. Mendoza, if you're going to go to Less than one, or if you're on the fence, check out CRA tech.

It is the largest gathering in New York, commercial real estate, built world tech prop tech, innovation, capital, green tech coming up. Uh, we're proud to be partners with them. Partners now three years and growing fifth wall and others will all be there. I'd see a seat back as luncheon. Throw a note in the comments or reach out.

We'll get you an invite. I think if becca has room. 

[00:58:23] Bekah Carlson: Oh, yeah Always 

[00:58:26] Andreas Senie: Yeah Um, and there's one other thing about conferences and we'll close here and i'd say a quick question I've noticed more and more of the bigger sponsors are just across the street hotel rooms setting up meetings So if your plan is to just show up You may not find who you're looking for anymore.

They don't have the big booths. They used to, you actually need to do the legwork ahead of time. Pre posting during let's see you back at a close out. Is that true? Get your marketing in order.

It's 

[00:59:00] Bekah Carlson: the season marketing season. 

[00:59:02] Andreas Senie: Just the season for eight months. You're the longest season out of all of them. Uh, Chris, again, congrats on your promotion over there. Associated builders and contractors, Saul, Becca, our audience. We're just almost at 4 000 views tune ins monthly. So hopefully we'll push over that in this coming month with this actual episode.

Rejoining us next month, Dan Weidener out of Vinland. Hope to have everyone back. I know our audience will be back. They keep tuning in. Have a great February. Keep your head up. And Mr. Mendoza, lead us out, please. 

[00:59:41] Announcer: Thanks for tuning in to the Real Estate Roundtable, powered by Cracko AI, your source for the latest in real estate and technology.

For past episodes, sector interviews, and more great content, follow us on all social media and YouTube at CRE Collaborative. You can also find us anywhere you listen to podcasts. Please like, subscribe, and share. It really does help. Thanks again for tuning in, and we'll see you at the next Real Estate Roundtable.