CRECo_ai Presents_ The Real Estate Roundtable - Thur June 6th_ 2024

[00:00:00] Andreas Senie: Welcome back to this month's roundtable. You're all in 1 comprehensive view of what's happening across the real estate industry straight from some of the industry's earliest technology adopters and foremost experts in technology, marketing, brokerage, government policy, capital, construction and cyber security.

This is a three part show. Part one introductions with no breach of our round table hosts on this month's call this month's show or two sector focus. We're going to unpack and dive deep into the past month's biggest news and trends in the industry. And part 2, part 3, what does that mean for you, your business, and what you can do for the next 30 days to outpace and outperform your competition.

I'm Andreas Senni, Founder of Siri Collaborative, brokerage owner and Managing Director for KW Commercial Health Technology Growth Strategists for both non profit and for profit sectors. And joining me this month is none other than Dan Wagner, Senior VP, Government Relations at the Inland Real Estate Group Companies.

And newly soon to be appointed to the Dan. 

[00:01:45] Dan Wagner: So I I'm going to be taking over as the chairperson of the Illinois Chamber of Commerce. 

[00:01:53] Andreas Senie: They're lucky to have you. Welcome back. Always a pleasure to have you on the call. Also joining us this month, Professor Darren Hayes, CEO of Code Detectives and one of the top 10 forensic cybersecurity specialists nationwide.

And as usual, Darren, nice to see you. Looking great here. State State side. How are you? 

[00:02:16] Darren Hayes: Good. Thank you. Great to be here 

[00:02:19] Andreas Senie: as always. So climb. We'll be back to join us later. Chris able and Maria and couldn't join us to. Oh, there's a Maria. Come on now. You're making a liar. And Maria is here shining, shining and ready to go.

S. P. P. director of this development in the capital. All things green, getting green with seepage. Not joining us this month is gonna be Chris Abel. And I dare say, I'm not gonna say Rebecca 'cause she might pop in. So that being said, Dan, miss Mr. Chairman? Yeah, , go ahead. What's the latest and greatest? 

[00:02:53] Dan Wagner: Well, obviously one of the things that we have to acknowledge, uh, today is June 6th, which is the 80th anniversary of D-Day.

And that, uh, that. Momentous occasion, um, still has rippling effects throughout our world and the United States of, uh, of real estate because all those GIS came back after, uh, winning the war and redid all of the way America is able to, uh, be looked at and the suburbs and all that good stuff got created.

So just a, a, a hats off or tip, tip, tip of the hat to all of our veterans today and God bless our veterans. So I wanted to highlight that. But uh, in regards to the wild world of real estate. The, uh, the 10 31 like kind of exchange is the thing that I am still educating the people on. I'm heading out to Manhattan Beach on, uh, on Monday.

I'll be there for a week, uh, talking to various, uh, leaders in the real estate and financial services markets about why we need to be, um, educating our elected officials about how important the 1031 is. Because, uh, President Biden in his budget, um, he put it in again to cap it at 500, 000 to double capital gains and to, um, get rid of stepped up basis.

And so we're out there trying to educate people. So let her know that's not a good idea and to make sure that people can talk to their members of Congress. Now, nothing's going to happen today. It just is what happens after the election. Because right now gridlock in Washington is gridlock. And what we're going to, what we're seeing is, is that the election, this November is going to be very important to see who wins.

And no matter if it's Democrats, Republicans, who, if, if, If they, if one party rules in any of those sectors, they can do a reconciliation, which is just one vote in the Senate. You don't need to have a 60 votes because they reconciliation, you can pass by one vote. So that's where we have to educate the Democrats and Republicans like to let them know why it's so important.

So campaign of awareness on the 

[00:05:01] Andreas Senie: 10 31 exchange, TST products, the 10 31 exchange, and I'm coining your phrase, the 401k. Of commercial real estate. Yes. They are to make things move. And as far as generational wealth, it is the lubrication that, or the gears that allows investment that allows redevelopment.

Saul Klein is back joining us. Knew he was showing back up. Realtor emeritus did advocate and MLS president, CEO of the MLS in San Diego. So nice to see you as well. We're just talking 1031 exchanges, awareness, and education. I was actually with a group. about 20 brokers today talking about 10 31 exchanges.

Explain when you talk to your clients, potential clients, and explain, it's okay that you don't want to own real estate. Why don't you move that money, that capital game, and investment at 10 31 exchange DST. Still collect annually, still sell it, still roll it. And, and eyes were wide open. People still don't know.

So always a big topic to work to solve. Nice to see you as always.

It's great to be here 

[00:06:13] Saul Klein: and Dan, I love it that you promote 1031 tax deferred exchanges so passionately. Really, it's building estates with pre tax dollars. It's something everybody should learn about. It, uh, it's just a great tool, and not necessarily for the big guys, although they, they benefit from it, but for moms and pops and people that are trying to build their own wealth and generational wealth, what a great tool, and it would be a sin if we lost it.

[00:06:42] Andreas Senie: Well, we won't, because we're all going to show up and show out and make sure that we and, and anyone and everyone who will listen, actually. Speaking of telling anyone and everyone who will listen, Maria, nice to have you back with us for CPACE. All I'm seeing everywhere and anywhere is talks of carbon credits, solar, what can I do, how do I do better.

Second only to Darren, but I'll get to you in a second, Darren. Anna Maria, what's going on? I 

[00:07:09] Anna Maria Kowalik: mean, this sustainability industry is just exploding at this time. Uh, new technologies that keep emerging, uh, just all kinds of things. things that we have to keep our eyes on because sometimes, uh, some of the, uh, benefits that we see coming through governmental authorities, uh, tends to have restrictions and regulations along with it.

And so to have the appropriate people at your side who know how to navigate, uh, those, uh, Those rules and regs and, and, you know, that, that kind of, um, uh, street upon which the race is happening, you know, uh, we, we really need to be on top of things, um, and keeping on top of things, uh, next week, I'll be traveling to Nashville, uh, for our annual, uh, Patriot Day.

Pace Nation Summit, and, uh, that's one of the primary industry, uh, events that, uh, most of us attend as well as, uh, there's going to be the CPACE Alliance meeting happening right in our own backyard here in Chicago, uh, in September. And so these are two major events, uh, that kind of define what's going on in the industry, uh, what's coming next, uh, what are people doing?

That's new and innovative because, uh, even the financing tool itself has been evolving over time and, uh, things that it wasn't able to do before, uh, are now beginning to be done, such as, uh, Uh, some programs, some states are actually, um, looking at variable rates instead of that, you know, we always tout commercial property assessed clean energy financing as up to 100 percent fixed rate long term financing, uh, And and now due to the high interest rates and the volatility in the market, people are beginning to look at a variable type option.

And so we're still at the beginning of that and trying to take a look at it and see. See how that's going to work and if it's really going to be cost effective, you know, but, um, uh, that's one of the new things happening in our industry. And so, uh, you know, there's, there's a lot, uh, going on, uh, today, for example, I was reading that, uh, the European Central Bank has reduced.

It's rates to, I think it was 3. 75, if I'm not, uh, mistaken. And 

[00:10:12] Andreas Senie: that's, well, we do have a global audience. Hold on. That 3. 75 is going to move more money away from here and over there. Let's go. Yeah, 

[00:10:21] Anna Maria Kowalik: but we've got another fed meeting coming up soon. And so, you know, who knows what's going to happen there? You know, it's moving.

You're saying, yes, yes, it is. Definitely is. And then I am here also to promote Rebecca and, uh, her, uh, Carlson and her marketing group because, um, I was just at an event where, uh, she, it was the, uh, Northern Illinois, uh, Commercial Association of Realtors. And, uh, she was doing one of the round tables and I actually sat at her round table just to get a rounder understanding of, uh, how marketing, uh, you know, from her perspective is, uh, you know, execute and she had some great tips.

And so, you know, first and foremost, just consider brand. You know, and and Dan and I talk about the inland brand all the time, uh, how we're most fortunate to be able to, uh, be associated with a company that has a strong brand, uh, you know, really, um, embodying that integrity and expertise and innovation.

And, and so branding, whether personal or company, so important. And then she asks us to consider the W's. Who needs to hear from you? What should they be seeing about you and from you? When are they looking? Where are they looking? Why are they working with you? And how can you improve? And so, uh, lots to be learned.

She talked about primary, secondary and tertiary audiences and how you need to have a goal. Uh, and have consistent scheduling of your message and have a message one, two and three that you just roll on out there all the time and to have that voice and flow on various key days of the week. So nobody wants to work on Friday.

So don't send out a message on a Friday, you know, but, uh, very heavy days are Monday and Tuesday and Thursday come next and, and Wednesday captures a certain audience. So, uh, so anything you need to know about marketing, marketing, Carlson integrated, 

[00:13:01] Andreas Senie: uh, Marketing mavens. Yes. It's a marketing maven. Well, she, uh, she 

[00:13:07] Anna Maria Kowalik: and her 16 woman team.

[00:13:10] Andreas Senie: Yes. A woman owned business with 16 women work, women working there. Yes. So, Becca, we're sorry you couldn't be here today. Hope I know you're tuning in. Do, do, don't forget to share, rate and review us really does help. That goes for our listeners too. But what I'm really hearing as we, as we circle to Darren, is.

Having that qualified advisor, having someone to guide you through these rules and regulations. And yes, Inland's brand is incredibly powerful. Everybody knows who and what Inland is. Look at this call, look behind Dan, look at your background. I mean, it's, it's there. It's ever present. How do you know and verify that, that you are in fact in Inland and things aren't going the way they're supposed to going when we're talking tech?

Yeah, right. How are things in the cyber security world? 

[00:14:00] Darren Hayes: Uh, I think it's going to be a very interesting year because we have quite a number of elections going on globally. Just saw the election in Mexico and I was surprised by a statistic about how many people were actually assassinated who were running for office during that election.

Um, but there's going to be a line 

[00:14:21] Andreas Senie: should invest in the U. S. Go on. 

[00:14:23] Darren Hayes: Yeah, but there's there's a lot of misinformation. Then there's the warnings are already out about the U. S. Election and misinformation is already spreading across social media. Um, but also there's a couple of major events which are going on.

Which have already been targeted by, um, Russia in terms of propaganda. So if you've been reading about, uh, the Olympics in Paris coming up, uh, next month, I believe the end of next month, um, you know, Russia has been fear mongering and talking about threats to the Olympics because their athletes can't, um, perform under the Russian flag because of the IOC rules.

Um, but also we've got, uh, the euros, uh, football or soccer, which is a big event across Europe. So there's, there's talk of threats and cyber attacks associated with that. Uh, so lots and lots going on. AI is also coming up in the news and we could talk about that more in depth. But, um, there's a new tool that came out associated with, um, Microsoft's AI co pilot called, uh, Recall, and it's like a security disaster for Microsoft.

Uh, somebody has already been able to pull down personal data, hack this new tool. Um, this tool is called Total Recall. Uh, interestingly, and, uh, so so that's going on as well. We just had the 35th anniversary of Tiananmen Square, and I was combing through social media, looking at a lot of misinformation about, you know, how these protesters were attacking the Chinese government and Chinese army and that kind of thing.

So, so lots of misinformation going on there. Um, I don't know whether you saw also, uh, they were talking about a covert Israeli online campaign, um, trying to influence American, uh, lawmakers that came out in the news today. So lots and lots of interesting things happening in the cyber world. Of course, we have a 

[00:16:40] Andreas Senie: majority of it being misinformation, right?

Misinformation and impersonation. 

[00:16:46] Darren Hayes: It seems like we 

[00:16:47] Andreas Senie: just all need to get back together in a room and have our brokered luncheons to do this. 

[00:16:52] Darren Hayes: Yes, yes. I think that we don't see probably even half of what's going on. I mean, Iran has major cyber capabilities. You know, they continually hack, they continually spread misinformation about the war in Israel and about what's going on in Yemen, for example.

So, so, Everybody's very busy in terms of misinformation, cyber attacks, uh, and the elections are just another vector of these attacks. Big year coming up. 

[00:17:25] Andreas Senie: Well, it is a big year. There was a lot of uncertainty, but there's still these great pockets of opportunity to, to invest, to lease. Businesses continue, businesses have to continue to move, get bigger, get smaller, right?

We're still doing this. One of the biggest holders of information is the MLS, and they're not going to stop moving for anything. Saul, I mean, you're there, working out of San Diego, the largest in the country. As far as an MLS broker, what's going on there? 

[00:17:56] Saul Klein: Well, we're not, we're not quite the largest, but we're a good size MLS.

We've got about 12, 000, uh, members. And so everybody's gearing up for first the June 18th deadline for either accepting or rejecting the NAR settlement. In the uh, Sitzer Burnett and Merrill case in Illinois and, and uh, Missouri and that's a big deal. As a matter of fact, I had a board of directors meeting today and we, and the board of directors gave me approval to sign the, uh, the agreement that says we're going to conform to the requirements, the practice requirements of the settlement.

So that's a big deal. Um, but people are still gonna list and sell real estate. The offer of compensations being removed from the MLS, but MLS brings a lot more value. It's the place you go to find out what's available. It's the place you go if it's policed, right? We self-police it, and police. It's the place you go to find out what's sold.

Appraisers use it. It's very valuable beyond the offer of compensation. And the news that we saw this week, Northwest MLS, which is a large MLS in Western Washington, about 33, 000 members, not a realtor MLS. And know that not all MLSs are realtor MLSs. Um, those that are follow NAR's guidelines or handbook around being an MLS, but Northwest MLS is a broker owned MLS, and it has chosen not to be part of the settlement.

If it wanted to join the settlement, it would have to pay 100 a head and that's 3. 3 million, but it elected to say, you know what, we think what we're doing is right. We think that the DOJ has got it all messed up, even though the DOJ is not a party to this settlement agreement because it's civil litigation.

Uh, but they've come out strong and have declared that they're not going to be part of the settlement. And it'll be interesting to see where that takes us. But if you look at their model, it sure makes a lot of sense. It looks like they've been leading the way all along. And so in the real estate industry, we're excited about that.

And Darren, you mentioned, um, Microsoft. And one of the things that we're we were dealing with and seeing is, uh, being real estate where Microsoft and it's a I seems to be out there capturing data from the MLS might even be getting that data from a couple of big brokers. And if that's where it's coming from, those brokers, at least in my mind, could be in violation of data licensing agreements.

And something that people have to keep in mind is that the data just because it's on the Internet doesn't mean everybody can use it. Doesn't mean you can just take it and use it for your own purposes. And people are building billion dollar businesses around the data that comes out of MLSs. So we're going to figure out ways to start charging people based on consumption of the data.

So if a broker puts up MLS data on their website and they only get, let's say, a thousand views a month, they'll pay one thing. But if they put it up on some big national website and get 50, 000 views a month, Maybe they should pay more for that data. So 

[00:20:58] Andreas Senie: you mean like a social media influencer gets paid for speaking?

We should get paid for inputting our data? Which is a conversation we've had over and over. Brokers are at the forefront with the most relevant, and it's just copied and pasted and moved and shifted. Is that what you're saying? Consumption based? 

[00:21:17] Saul Klein: So, I mean, everywhere else, aren't you paid for your content on the internet?

You've got I'm all for it. Yeah, you put it, so shouldn't people who use MLS content have to pay for that? And if you're a broker and you're producing and you're providing that content to the MLS, then of course you should get some break on that. But there are a lot of big players out there that don't provide a whole lot to the To the, uh, equation, and yet they utilize that data to build billion dollar businesses, and that's gotta stop.

[00:21:45] Andreas Senie: Well, commercial, the commercial industry is o opaque on purpose. Some would say some owners, you know, right. It's historically, um, I, I know inland collects data. We all collect data, we have internal data, external data sources. So how do you, how do you, how do you stop that, that, uh, copy and paste? 

[00:22:04] Saul Klein: Well, one of the things, one of the things you can do is if somebody actually comes to you for a data license agreement, in other words, they do this legitimately and legally, then you have the right to insist in any way you can track this technologically.

And we think we've got ways to do it, that you can charge them based on. The consumption of that data. Now, of course there are gonna be people that still steal the data, right? And if you can catch 'em, then you can figure out how you can, uh, remedy that or how you, what your recourse might be. But I'm talking about the people who legitimately get the data, but then use it beyond the license for which they originally obtained the data 

[00:22:46] Andreas Senie: that happens, 120 page, uh, terms of service that nobody reads or.

user by user. We're talking at a corporate 

[00:22:55] Saul Klein: level. Well, so from our perspective, we're talking about a data license agreement that might be 10 pages long. And if you want to use that data to create derivative works, you have to tell us what you want to use it for. And then we're going to charge you based on how much you use it.

Right. How much money you get a number of different ways to go about this. Now, this is not a new idea, but we're starting to gain the capability technologically to be able to track that consumption and the next step is charging based on that. Well, so the 

[00:23:29] Andreas Senie: reason I'm being obtuse on purpose is that I recall as you have a book, right?

The book came online. It was written and it was everywhere that it was on the then it was to the public. Realtor information network, right? Then brokers wanted it on their website. Then brokers had their own pocket listings only on their website. And commercially we've followed the same trajectory, the same path.

Now we're all kind of starting to hold it all close to the vest again. Difference being we have 29 portals that are not interconnected, like the MLS that are of any quality, get listing data, and then we have analytical tools that are not interconnected. We just have all these silos. It seems like based on what you're saying that that's just going to continue to grow as maybe it should because that data is so valuable.

How else we shouldn't just 

[00:24:17] Saul Klein: share 

[00:24:17] Andreas Senie: it open? 

[00:24:19] Saul Klein: Well, and we have data licensing, right? There's often a lot of confusion between data feeds and data licensing, data consumption. And so, um, we've got something that's referred to as IDX and it's a misused term, but it has to do with broker sharing, listing information for advertising purposes.

And so if you're a broker and you join a multiple listing service, you have the right to gain that data. There might be some costs to it, but you have the right to get that data back to put on your own website. And we have a license agreement for that. But if you're, but how do we charge for it? Pretty much it's one, one size fits all.

And so everybody's become a broker. Zillow is a broker, right? All the big companies are, Redfin is a broker, and these are big brokerages that make lots of money. Now that mean they're profit, but they make lots of money off of the use of the data. And should they pay the same for that data license as say, Um, a three agent mom and pop real estate brokerage firm, or should there be, you know, a greater, a better way to measure the benefit of the data and charge people accordingly.

And we think that there is, and it'll take a while to shake out, but I think that might be the next step. Andreas 

[00:25:42] Andreas Senie: know, it's, it's a, it's an incredible time to be in real estate. As I've said. You know, the technology is there to go get as much information as I want. I can go get as much business as I can handle if I'm willing to work for it, because I can find the right information about the right property, the right end user, um, internally, externally.

There's so many platforms out there. So I'm curious to see this evolve. So 

[00:26:03] Dan Wagner: I just want to highlight, thank you for your board to support, uh, NAR's settlement and, uh, there's. You know, no matter what anybody says, there's not a more powerful organization than the National Association of Realtors and Shannon McGann that does their charge of all their lobbying is a rock star among also every FPC, every federal, federal political coordinator that's out there in their, in their, um, right in the grassroots, making sure to promote and promulgate the Realtor message at the local state national level.

It's a really big deal. So God bless you for supporting the Realtors. 

[00:26:37] Andreas Senie: Absolutely. Well, that goes back. Thank you, Dan. That actually goes back to those qualified advisors, qualified consultants. NAR has a toolbox. They promote tools that they believe in, data feeds they believe in, licensing agreements they think are fair.

It's all there. Crack goes on it. Many others are on it. Those 29 listing portals I spoke about, uh, minus 2 or minus 10 are on it. Um, they're out there doing realtor property resources, collecting data. It has AI scripts to generate summaries. It's got listings. It's got tax data. There's so many ways to repackage this stuff.

I mean, even Anna Maria on the CPA side, we've got Landgate. Out there showing us exactly what our properties can generate, whether it's farmland in Idaho or Manhattan, right? The kilowatts, the money, the actual earnings potential is right there in the system. Like I said, the data is there the matter of going to get the business.

With the right data with the trusted resource, which is a question. That's a branding question and a track record question. 

[00:27:42] Dan Wagner: Well, the other thing I wanted to throw out to you, Andreas, is that, um, we, Ann Marie and I were honored to go to see Joe Cosenza, another one of our founders at Inland. Go, uh, be honored and connect C CRE, uh, where he got the lifetime achievement award and I, uh, I wanted to, I asked, I talked to Joe and said that we're going to be on this, uh, you know, the show today.

And, uh, he, I was, he told me I should just, I should highlight something. It's very interesting in regards to commercial real estate. He said that two years ago, he, um, was going to make an offer on a big apartment complex. I won't tell you where, where it is or the name of it, but he said two years ago, um, it was, if he bought it, it was going to be 192 million, 500, 000.

But today, uh, well, actually this week, he signed it for 168 million. So the, the value, if you have the cash value, you can get some really good deals right now because the interest rates have just really stopped people from being able to go, you know, go finance. But if you have the cash to be able to get it, then, um, then you're able to get some pretty amazing deals.

So that's one interesting point. 

[00:28:53] Andreas Senie: And when there's always buying,

[00:28:55] Dan Wagner: yes, they do have 

[00:28:56] Andreas Senie: the cash. So I think their brand, I mean, it's everywhere. So that's a big 

[00:29:02] Dan Wagner: deal. That's a big deal. And then with, um, you know, we're talking about the 10 31 being a kind of an economic development tool. I will highlight Anne Maria, you're the pay spine program.

I know you were in a small town in Kendall County. Um, which was Yorkville and you know, the, the, the old buildings and down, you know, any downtown area, just I'll call out for C PACE funding to be able to redo their windows and everything else. But I know that you had an experience talking to people out in kind of a rural area, which you might not necessarily think of C PACE in a rural area, but, um, you did.

[00:29:38] Anna Maria Kowalik: No, this is true. And it was a great audience. They were very engaged in hearing something new that they didn't know about before. And, uh, we're very proud, you know, because we do have a hand in the Illinois, um, uh, program administration of CPACE, uh, through, uh, an, a non, uh, uh, A 501 C 3 actual nonprofit organization that we helped found and seed and, uh, provide subcontracting services to, and that is the Illinois Energy Conservation Authority or IECA PACE.

as it's known here and we've taken on our 16th county now, uh, in central Illinois. So we had Champaign and Peoria counties and now Bloomington Normal is covered by McLean County. So we're very proud to announce, uh, that onboarding. And, and again, these are counties that have, um, great urban areas, but Lots of, uh, agricultural and, and small towns, uh, you know, that are, are within the certain MSA, uh, that would qualify them, you know, to easily obtain the financing.

But, um, you know, just, uh, It can be, uh, so accretive to them, uh, in so many different ways, uh, bringing aging building stock, uh, up to date and, uh, fully improved so that energy savings and consumption are, uh, The energy usage is reduced, therefore creating more savings. And the same thing with consumption.

It only goes to benefit the environment and and then helping communities meet those green goals. You know, we hear about the greening of America and, and, you know, All of, uh, these new programs, but it doesn't do much good if they're if they can't be used and easily, um, uh, you know, utilized, uh, across the board, you, you have to be able to, uh, implement these tools in order to get, uh, uh, the climate result that we want to see.

[00:32:10] Andreas Senie: And so again, utilizing tools, the right people in the right places and finding those people. I mean, LinkedIn is now done with verified professionals. We have our association, you go to NAR, you expect a certain level of professionalism, right? CCIM, SIOR, all of it. And then misinformation is sitting there as well.

[00:32:31] Dan Wagner: I, you know, Irem, yeah, all these, all the groups are amazing. And it is, it's a, it's pretty, it's a big deal. I know Darren, um, you highlighted how the, you know, the different places are around the world are, are attacking us. I think it's super important to have people like you that's, uh, that's out there to help save us too, because the data that, uh, that Saul has.

And I mean, it's, it all can be put to negative use. And, uh, and I just want to say thank you for, uh, what you've taught me in this process too. You're good at this. 

[00:33:03] Andreas Senie: Oh, it is the same here. Go ahead. 

[00:33:09] Darren Hayes: Um, yeah, no, it's, it's, uh, it's, unfortunately, AI is just making it a lot easier for people to, um, create fake videos.

You know, we have, we have this, you know, problem now where we have, uh, Our corporate executives, you know, people making up fake videos, uh, appealing to shareholders or investors. And, you know, there's all those scams that are arising with that. Um, there was actually just a case that, that was announced. The FBI caught this guy, Yung Wan, who had made 99 million from, uh, VPNs across 200 countries around the world.

Um, and as part of this scam, they basically, when they arrested him, they found that he had a Ferrari, uh, Ferraris, BMWs, um, Rolls Royces, lots and lots of cryptocurrency wallets. Um, it's part of the indictment. Uh, they mentioned how he had facilitated, um, foreign scammers to Claim 6 billion in COVID aid funding from the U.

S. government. So it's, it's just pretty staggering. I mean, what these, this guy did with his, what's called a botnet is put malware on thousands and thousands of computers across the world. So that if you want to perpetrate an attack, you can basically pick You know, a U. S. Computer that you'll proxy through and do your carry out your nefarious activities, such as, you know, claiming covert funds.

And, uh, it's, it's a, it's a huge problem today. And, and again, AI makes it very easy to create videos, voice, um, photo photos very, very easily, um, to perpetrate these types of crimes, 

[00:35:04] Andreas Senie: which means we have to get back in person to do our deals at our major conference events, which I love. I like the in person 'cause we've got a whole generation that's afraid to get on the phone, let alone meet in person.

So we're really gonna do some deals here, which is exactly, yes. Yeah, it's scary though. AI is scary. The more I see, the more I use it and I am using it more often. I've got it in my inbox, I've got it in different places, but I am constantly, uh, fact checking it or educating it, I should say. I still believe strongly that it is, it is a day one intern and if you would not trust a day one intern to do it.

Don't trust AI, at least not with a lot of oversight. 

[00:35:44] Darren Hayes: Yeah, yeah. And I, I, the other thing as well, I just saw, I didn't get to read the article, but it just came out about, uh, I think it was Intel and NVIDIA being investigated for monopoly on AI chips and AI technologies. You know, some interesting things happen.

A lot of lawsuits it's, it's generating with, with, uh, with the use of AI, who actually owns this information. Can you just pass on this information from other sources and claim it as your own? It's a, it's also a legal nightmare. 

[00:36:17] Andreas Senie: Well, regulations take forever to keep up. And that was before AI showed up.

[00:36:21] Darren Hayes: Yeah. 

[00:36:22] Andreas Senie: What is what, and so I don't know if this is a fair question or not. Speaking of MLS data, is the MLS data then going to be licensed to the AI? AI tools perplexity chat GPT, uh, Charlie AI, whichever tool and then what happened and 

[00:36:38] Saul Klein: who 

[00:36:38] Andreas Senie: polices that? Yeah. So I think,

[00:36:39] Saul Klein: I think that's, I think that's already begun.

I'm not afraid of AI at all. I'm an advocate for it. Uh, like any type of technology, you have to be careful and, uh, watch what you're doing, but I think it will bring a lot more good than Evil to us and, uh, what we're looking at. One of the things we're seeing now is AI driven conversations around real estate.

So all of the big players, lots of money is going into AI driven conversations. And I used to say, you know, NAR used to say the purpose of the realtor's information network is to keep the realtor in the center of the transaction. I changed that myself and around 2000, I said, I don't think being in the center of the transactions, the name of the game anymore.

I think if you're a residential realtor or a realtor in general, you have to keep yourself in the center of the conversation. And so now there's lots of conversations taking place. You've got to figure out how you're going to participate. Know that the big money is going into you. AI, three terms I heard the other day was clarity, brevity, relevance, or talking about this data, clarity, clarity, brevity, and relevance.

And AI will continue to play a bigger and bigger part in part because of the money that's behind it. And yeah, human beings will be around for a long time. And that doesn't mean that the buggy whip manufacturers didn't go out of business and the anvil makers didn't go out of business. And so we take too lightly.

Sometimes I think the idea that a human being will always be needed. I think we have to be cautious. We have to realize that there are things that I can do. As a matter of fact, we're gonna have labor shortages around the world. And so maybe we need some of this a I to help us with the labor shortages that are to come.

So you're right, Andreas. A lot of a I around lots of information, including M. L. S. Information. And the question is, how do you integrate that into your business? So you can make more money and stay 

[00:38:38] Dan Wagner: out 

[00:38:38] Saul Klein: of 

[00:38:38] Dan Wagner: trouble. So I love how positive you are. Cause I, I think it's terrific. And, and another example of the technology, um, Andreas is this program.

I mean, when we, when we started, you know, what, what was the, what, where are we at now? I mean, what's the show 

[00:38:54] Andreas Senie: we are. So thank you for the plug. 

[00:38:57] Dan Wagner: No, no, 

[00:38:58] Andreas Senie: no. It's a plug at this point. We, we are across every continent. We have over 3000 tune ins and downloads every month, which is incredible. This started as a, it's a small gathering and I didn't know where we'd go.

Hats off to Mr. Mendoza, the producer behind the scenes, making us all look good. It took me years to actually listen to him, to buy the right stuff, to make me look better. The rest of my co hosts look good naturally. It took me some, some effort, but it's, this show has grown and it started as a radio, I was a guest on a radio show.

Then I was on LinkedIn and then it became this growing mushroom cloud. Um, it is in fact, a social media influencer, the micro influencer, cause we're under 5, 000 or 10, 000. But as a podcast, if I use that term, we're in the top 5 percent as a live stream event. Across multiple channels, we're in the top 20%.

It is truly incredible. Not to mention we're in, I mean, Darren, this is the one time you're in the country, we're all over the U S doing this together. As if we're sitting around a table, which is why it's the round table. Round of topics, round of knowledge, out to every continent in real time. It's in growth.

The technology is in growth. And this is a round 

[00:40:11] Dan Wagner: table and you are king author, uh, Andreas. Thank you for that. King author. 

[00:40:16] Andreas Senie: And, and, uh, and, uh, you know, it's, it's no, it's in no small part, thanks to the data aggregation platform. We found, I found it in 2016 and built and it still grows. And it's out there servicing over 2000 companies.

Whatever your technology took stack, as long as you're deploying it, as long as you're aware of what's coming, what's needed and what's changing, uh, that is in fact, what makes the difference between AI replacing you or you staying in the conversation, it's, it's being a value, it's being a trusted, qualified consultant, advisor, intermediary broker, and then bringing that value, communicating that value across whatever channels appropriate.

And that's, that AI has a long way to go through to get to where we are, but it is, uh, it is a great sidekick. I'll give you that much. There's now a sidekick to what I do daily and I'm having a lot of fun with it, but I'm still fact checking. And look, Inland has more than one technology award of its own.

You guys, you, yeah. Yeah. So it's, if you're not, 10 years ago, we've all said, if you're not using technology, you wouldn't be here. And I think when the MLS came out and realtor. com came out, they said realtors won't exist, but they still do. Look, we're still here. We're all there's just some things you need that human element for and thanks to the world of cybercrime, that human element will continue to be around because you need real people interacting to do real.

[00:41:47] Saul Klein: Hey Andres, what we really said when we launched Realtor. com was what you hear people say today and we were saying it in 1995 through the National Association of Realtors and the Realtors Information Network technology won't replace Realtors. Realtors using technology will replace Realtors who don't use it, right?

So we were saying that 30 years ago and people are still saying it today. 

[00:42:10] Andreas Senie: Well, now this now it's the AI line. won't replace you a realtor using it. Well, 

[00:42:17] Dan Wagner: getting, getting together, Andrea, this is so important. I know I'm, um, NAR asked me to come speak at the C5, uh, global summit. That's the commercial, uh, real estate global summit.

It's gonna be in South Florida, September 17th, 18th and 19th. And I'm going to be speaking on the 18th, about the 10 31, but getting together. And having that, you know, people, people, uh, talking and you, you know, you go to these seminars and one of the best places to be able to network is in the hallways.

And that's still part of the human condition. There's no AI that's going to overcome, you know, that, that personal relationship that people would create. But like you said, it's just another tool that you can have in your toolbox and, you know, embrace all these tools. But. That hard work that somebody has that personal relationship going to, you know, and they are providing these opportunities for people to get together.

Um, I'm still a big believer in coming into work and be able to talk to colleagues and, um, it's just, there's a camaraderie that can't be done. I mean, this is a great opportunity because we're all spread out, but having that togetherness is a good thing too. 

[00:43:24] Andreas Senie: What's, look, I feel like we're in the room candidly.

I, I mean, that's, we've been around long enough, talk long enough. We've all been in the rooms with each other doing different things, different projects. It's, there is no replacement for being together. But this is a nice, 

[00:43:38] Dan Wagner: it is 

[00:43:39] Andreas Senie: nice, uh, bandaid shortcut, if you will, or, or, uh, an alternative until we're together again.

But again, a chat box, uh, you know, I recently filed an insurance claim. I told the person flat out, I won't use your app. I'm not going to use anything that's that, that I don't know that I'm not worth it talking to a real person. Cause real people are how things get humble opinion. And in many, mind you, that probable process probably took 10 times longer because I didn't use the app.

But I feel better about them and brokers will still be there investors lenders. I mean everyone on this call Are you are you meeting less now in person than you were pre covid or are people craving interaction? Because now there's so much being thrown at them digitally 

[00:44:32] Anna Maria Kowalik: Oh, actually, I'm meeting more with people, uh, you know, probably not more than pre pandemic, uh, but about the same level.

And some weeks are very intense. Like this week, Tuesday and Thursday, I was running from event to event to event, uh, three on Tuesday and three today, including this one. So 

[00:44:56] Andreas Senie: Darren, you're, you're out there protecting the world or at least helping police it out to the back. Our companies. Gathering or are they now more remote or do they want to stay remote?

[00:45:06] Darren Hayes: I think that people are more remote. I think that there's also been, um, there is a mental health crisis. And I know that COVID did impact a lot of students. I mean, I had a, a reception for, for an event not so long ago. And one of my students came and, uh, just left when they saw a group of people because they, they, Hadn't been, you know, around other people and it was a very 

[00:45:33] Andreas Senie: social anxiety.

[00:45:36] Darren Hayes: Yeah. So, so there is that, and I, I can tell you down where I work, downtown Manhattan is that there are a lot of, and as well as, you know, around central park, there's a lot of businesses that have been turned into apartment blocks now because, um, people just haven't moved back to work. Um, so that's, that's a reality.

There's a, a lot of, um, apartments. Yeah, there's a, there's a real problem in New York City, especially Manhattan with a glut of apartments now and, and, um, a lot of these I've just been looking like at Zillow and it's, it seems like there are apartments that have dropped from like 1. 5 million to maybe 600, 000 and they're not able to sell them because people are looking at them and saying, why is the monthly, um, HOA fees, like 6, 000 for, for a 600, 000 apartment.

So, so there's, there's issues like that, but, uh, you know, I, I am very positive about AI just for the record. And, you know, I think all the experts have said that it will actually, it will eliminate. Certain positions for sure, but it will also create more positions. Um, then it will eliminate in the long run.

I think there's certain things that just need to be worked out in terms of intellectual property and who owns the data and who's getting their, their fair share in terms of royalties or, or maintaining their intellectual property. I know the sec are concerned in terms of, you know, Um, big businesses and institutional investors, you know, having a few seconds ahead of the average investor.

How do you keep that level playing field where, you know, grandma or somebody investing in a stock has, has the ability to make a good decision Um, you know, they'll never have as good a decision maker as as institutional investors. They'll always have the jump, but maybe AI gives them that an even better advantage with with making decisions and and you look at that across other industries and if if you have the best AI tools, is that going to, you know, make a even a more unfair playing field.

[00:47:55] Andreas Senie: You're talking about actionable Intel. 

[00:47:57] Darren Hayes: Yes. Yes. 

[00:47:59] Andreas Senie: That you can act on ahead of others. 

[00:48:02] Darren Hayes: Yes. And reason 

[00:48:02] Andreas Senie: brokers exists. We have information so our clients can act on and head of others in my industry. But New York and other cities have some struggles, but we're all nationwide. I mean, look, we're, we're doing relatively well considering what we've been through.

Connecticut prices are up. Retail is thriving. We're, We're moving. There is a trouble though. Office is a trouble. Office has trouble. It had trouble before. I mean, things had to change. You had a generational shift on top of COVID. You had a technology shift. We don't need file room. Didn't need them before COVID.

Don't need them now. Machines have gotten smaller. It has been exacerbated by COVID. No, there is no denying that. But I've got 92 percent occupancy in our offices in Cheltenham. There's a reason people will gather where there's a reason to gather where the amenities are right, where the offices are right, where the company cultures are there when there's excess, there's excess.

Uh, 

[00:49:03] Dan Wagner: there's no there. Well, Andreas, I'll tell you. So inland, um, you know, thank God we have, you know, Mr. Goodwin, God, God rest his soul, and all these other leaders who, uh, who constantly evaluate and, you know, where's market going? And so at one time, um, in one of our REITs, we owned the at and t building in downtown St.

Louis. It's a 40-year-old, uh, building now. And you know, it's worth hundreds of millions of dollars and we sold it, you know, years ago, but just recently, uh, this building in downtown St. Louis, it was, um, it was sold in 206 for 2006 for 205 million. It recently sold for, you're ready for this, a 98 percent plunged at 3.

6 million in 

[00:49:45] Andreas Senie: downtown 

[00:49:45] Dan Wagner: St. Louis. So, uh, what was 

[00:49:47] Andreas Senie: the vacancy today or recently as opposed to when you bought it? 

[00:49:50] Dan Wagner: Well, I mean, obviously it was a great deal when we bought it. And we were, I mean, we, but, but we knew because of our, uh, really brilliant, you know, leaders they do to get out of office when they got out of it at the right time.

But this is, this is a serious thing. Thing for people to have to just hand keys back to the bank, uh, when things like this happen. But now it's gonna be repurposed into a, you know, people are gonna make it into apartments and, but it's a, it's , 

[00:50:18] Andreas Senie: it's the opposite of pain. There's pain, but that pain means somebody's gonna capitalize and they'll be continued moving.

[00:50:23] Dan Wagner: It will. Have you seen anything like that in regards to the, the amount of, of, uh, loss and value? I mean, have you been through these downturns in your life? What do you think? 

[00:50:35] Andreas Senie: California, it always goes up. 

[00:50:38] Saul Klein: No, I think you're right, Dan. I mean, office is, is in a bad place right now. Depends on the city. It's location, location, location, right?

But there are buildings that are selling for 10, 20 cents on the dollar. Of course, if you can buy something for 10 or 20 cents on the dollar, you can spend the money that's required to repurpose it. So you're seeing that capital, uh, accumulate to be able to do those things. But there's no doubt in my mind.

That there are issues right now in office space, uh, there are issues with banks, there are things that people aren't seeing with regard to the economy, and it's not all, uh, roses, but at the same time, where there are threats, there are opportunities, and, uh, Andreas is right, people are gonna, some people will pay, and some people will pick up the slack on the other end, But there's hard times coming for some folks, and there's good times coming for others.

[00:51:30] Andreas Senie: Absolutely. And those with the actionable intel, whether the AI gives it to us, or the, or the, uh, CPACE financing provides a way for us to capitalize on it. Either way, and I, and I go back to Landgate. I mean, you've got farm owners who have no idea how much their land might be worth in solar payments. And there's technology that will tell them that.

They may not even be considering it. That today is the day that they said, even though they've been farming for five generations, that property might be better suited as a solar farm. There's change coming. Who's going to pay for that? And then if they put that solar farm in, do they then sell that and go into a DST?

Do they sell that lease? Because there's so many opportunities if you understand what's happening, if you have a handle on the rules and regulations. There's too much for me to have a handle on all of it. That's why I surround myself with smart people like everyone on this call. So, thank you to each of you for the call and for your help in growing this show.

Going back to, uh, Dan's earlier plug on the show itself. It wouldn't be the show it is today without each of you and without our audience. Thank you to everyone on the show. And I can't believe we're at the top. 

[00:52:42] Anna Maria Kowalik: And like everything else we've talked about on this and other programs in the past, it's all about the relationships.

And how well, uh, you know, we interact with one another. And so this has been a great group interacting well together. And, um, as, as was said at one of the panel discussions this morning, um, that I was a part of, uh, you know, It's so important to build the foundations and to, uh, uh, make sure that not only you have a plan, but you have the documents to support the plan and you have make the relationships and nurture those relationships along the way.

So, so that when it is time to ask for something, You will be given it, uh, and, and, and very readily. And so, um, you know, whether it's a financing deal, whether it's, uh, uh, looking for a particular piece of real estate, whether it's, uh, you know, just finding the appropriate people to have on a panel like this.

This, uh, I think, um, you know, uh, it's all about the relationships and we've lost Andreas, 

[00:54:05] Dan Wagner: speaking of relationships, I guess we made him mad.

But, 

[00:54:12] Anna Maria Kowalik: uh, he always wants to get in with, uh, parting thoughts. So if you were to leave with one parting thought today, Darren, what would yours be? 

[00:54:24] Darren Hayes: Um, just, just verify who you're talking to. You know, it's, it's very easy to, um, Again, for people to fall for these scams, anybody can, I mean, the CISO of any major company can just call people up and talk to them and verify the old fashioned way.

So, you know, we, we rely on everything electronic today, but if you actually pick up the phone or you meet with people in person, we can avoid a lot of these scams. So that's my parting thought. 

[00:54:54] Dan Wagner: Very 

[00:54:54] Anna Maria Kowalik: good. And Dan, 

[00:54:57] Dan Wagner: my party thought is it is an honor to be a part of all this with you, everyone here and to see the growth of this wonderful show and I appreciate the growth and the leadership of all of you and it's an honor to be part of this and to be with all of you.

Andreas, again, Andreas, you're back. 

[00:55:18] Andreas Senie: Believe it or not, what timing, huh? Thank everyone, and then off go the lights. So the entire block is without power, so back to actionable intel and the like. Without the tools or the utility, nothing happens. But here I am now on my handheld computer that, uh, while it only took us 68 kilobytes to land on the moon, this thing has gigabytes, right?

Darren, you can fact check me on that. But to our audience, to my fellow co hosts, this show Uh, is the one stop shop for all things across the industry together, talking, understanding. It's a candid conversation. Thank you to our listeners. Thank you to my fellow co host. Thank you to the industry that I love working in and will continue working in because the opposite of opportunity.

And pain is ongoing. Let's help the industry move forward as each of you do in your respective spaces and continue on. I'm looking forward to seeing everybody next month properly as we end here. Thank you, Mr. Mendoza for all you do. And thank you to our listeners. Let's lead out. Assuming everyone spoke.

Am I jumping in ahead of anybody? 

[00:56:31] Saul Klein: Wait, I can't believe you haven't said anything about my car wash picture. 

[00:56:34] Andreas Senie: Oh, wait, wait, wait. Not that I can't see the car wash, but I forgot. Thank you. Speaking of people getting back together because it is in fact a benchmark for this show is the car wash busier today than it was.

I'm 

[00:56:53] Saul Klein: glad you asked. May is the 31 day month. I love 31 day months. And yesterday we got our car wash owner paychecks. Remember, we have owned this car wash since 1979. And we have more people utilizing the car wash today. Then we've had in a long time and part of that is because the neighborhood is growing in density.

And so as the area grows in density, we get more business higher density is great for car wash owners as long as people continue to own automobiles. 

[00:57:27] Andreas Senie: Which they will. That's not changing, assumably, but so your neighborhood is growing in density. So is it fair to say that your neighborhood not only has been through growth, maturity, decline, and rebirth as a car wash, because you literally showed up when nothing was there, but you are now back on the second growth, or maybe even the third.

Growth cycle because it is a fact. Cyclical. We've seen, we've seen it, 

[00:57:52] Saul Klein: you know, real estate is cyclical and we've owned this long enough to see it go through cycle to where it was a middle class area to where it was a blighted area to where it started to come back to where it is now. It's actually desirable.

and people want to live in walkable neighborhoods and they still own cars. And so, yeah, we've seen it all in this particular part of San Diego. And I want to add something to Anna Maria, what you said, and you'll love this Andreas people, it's about relationships. What I've always said is. Contacts create contracts.

Contacts create contracts. It's contact with people that creates opportunity. It's contacts that create contracts and you need that statement. Your 

[00:58:33] Andreas Senie: network is your net worth. Go ahead, Anna Marie. And 

[00:58:35] Anna Maria Kowalik: I have two final things, uh, to add. Uh, as always, I like to end with the future is green. And it will be greener next month when we speak because I'll have all the news for you.

from the Pace Nation Conference to share with everyone. Um, aside from that, uh, next month, the first Thursday of the month is 4th of July. So do we need to make an announcement to our audience as to when we'll be meeting again? 

[00:59:07] Andreas Senie: I don't know. We did meet last 1st of the month, July, but it was not on 4th of July that will be forthcoming.

It'll be a surprise. We may miss it. It depends on how patriotic this group is, and we're all very patriotic. I think that's a fair shake. That being said, Mr Mendoza may have a surprise on the production side to highlight All the things we've done and how far we've come, it may just be the highlight reel, but we don't know.

It's going to be a surprise. Tune in next month, first Thursday of the month, every month for the Correco AI Real Estate Roundtable with such an incredible group of hosts. Also speaking of events, I would be remiss if I didn't say it. CRE tech coming up in New York, whether the offices are empty or they become apartments or not sustainability, innovation, take advantage, use our discount code, uh, when registering come see us there.

We'll talk everything green. We'll talk everything. Tech, auto motion, everything, real estate from when and founded Michael Beckerman's incredible. Uh, host of this show now in London as well. The largest gathering of real estate professionals, innovators, and the money funding it all. So proud to be a partner there.

Proud to invite you to join us, to be there with us. Also meet, go see Dan at C5 as we pointed out, we're here, here every month. You can see Saul quite often in San Diego, Anna Maria, if you're traveling in the Chicago land area. And Darren Hayes on NBC, ABC out there protecting us every day. And. All days across the globe.

Um, Darren, did you say something and I missed it? Well, I was just going 

[01:00:46] Darren Hayes: to say, uh, big congratulations to Dan Wagner again on your appointment. So well done. 

[01:00:52] Dan Wagner: Thank you very much. It's an honor. You're the best. 

[01:00:55] Andreas Senie: Uh, Mr. Mendoza, will you lead us out? 

[01:01:00] Reagan Mendoza: Thanks for tuning in to the real estate roundtable powered by Crackle AI.

Your source for the latest in real estate and technology for past episodes, sector interviews, and more great content. Follow us on all social media and YouTube at CRE collaborative. You can also find us anywhere you listen to podcasts, please like, subscribe and share. It really does help. Thanks again for tuning in and we'll see you at the next real estate roundtable.