CRECo_ai Presents_ The Real Estate Roundtable - Thur May 2nd_ 2024

[00:00:00] Andreas Senie: Welcome back to this month's roundtable, your all in one comprehensive view of what's happening across the real estate industry straight from some of the industry's earliest technology doctors and foremost experts in technology. Marketing, brokerage, government policy, capital, construction, and cyber security.

As always, it's a three part show. Part one, introductions, what's new for each of our roundtable hosts in their unique business sectors. Part two, sector focus, unpack, drill down. What are the biggest shifts happening in the industry that are, that's affecting your business and part three, what can you do to outpace your competition?

I'm Andrea Senni founder, CRE collaborative, brokerage owner, and commercial director here at TWU, as well as a technology growth strategist for both the nonprofit and for profit sectors. Joining me this month is none other than Rebecca Carlson, founder, CEO, Carlson Integrated, past president of NICAR and future recipient of woman of the year award out of the real estate journals.

We're going to talk about that. Becca, nice to see you this month. 

[00:01:40] Bekah Carlson: Thanks, Andreas.

[00:01:44] Andreas Senie: You're in marketing. I mean, you pushed out the award, went out there. What do you expect, right? Also joining us, none other than Chris Abel, Director of Associated Builders and Contractors here in Connecticut, board member, SNPS, and All Things Construction. Chris, nice to see you. Nice to see you. And as always, and Anna Maria Kowalik, our Director of Business Development at Inland Green Capital, All Things Finance, rather All Things Getting Green with Green.

Anna Maria, thank you for being here yourself for half the show and for taking and standing in for Dan. It's good to be here. Nice to see you. 

[00:02:21] Anna Maria Kowalik: You're welcome. Glad to be here always. 

[00:02:25] Andreas Senie: And I'll tell you what, why don't you kick us off today? 

[00:02:27] Anna Maria Kowalik: Sure. Uh, actually I'd like to report on, uh, Dan's great work with the 1031 exchanges.

And if you've listened to him, uh, I'm talking to the viewers and, uh, All of our audience right now. Uh, you've heard Dan talk about the 1031 as an IRA for real estate. And so he's working very hard to save it. Uh, and he, he thanks everyone for giving him the opportunity to keep a job. Uh, uh, uh, uh, all the back and forth.

forth that the 1031 exchanges had over the years. Uh, politically, it's like one of those footballs that keeps going back and forth. And, uh, he's always there to defend it. And, um, he had a national audience, uh, today, uh, on a webinar where he spoke to, uh, the. the basic constructs and, uh, benefits of the 10 31 exchange program.

And, uh, I guess there was going to be, uh, there were going to be committee meetings up on Capitol Hill, uh, that were going to Uh, going to be considering, uh, this topic once again. So, uh, fingers crossed, uh, Dan's doing his job and, uh, we can all rest better for it. 

[00:03:52] Andreas Senie: Right. Well, so for those that don't know, the 1031 is the 401k for commercial real estate investors, right?

It allows us to roll our investment to take that capital gain. Enroll it into something else, continue to reinvest, consistently reinvest our funds, if we're an investment in development, or if we're farmers and we just inherited our farm and we need to sell it and so on and so forth. So incredibly important.

Those that aren't paying attention, right? Your congressman, uh, pay attention. And if we lose it, it will stall commercial real estate. I'm going to 

[00:04:24] Anna Maria Kowalik: say it just like that. Is that true? Totally. That's correct. Because all the improvements that go into properties or might not. Go into a property because someone's holding it afraid of, uh, incurring the, uh, capital gains tax and, and therefore, uh, holding back.

But if, if they can exchange into something more amenable, uh, and then someone comes in and takes over and, uh, guts the place and turns it into something else, that's always a good thing. It creates jobs. It uses resources. Uh, it. Uh, materials, construction wise, et cetera. Uh, it, uh, uh, increases the insurance, it increases, it, it just works for everyone.

And, and it's a multi-layered, uh, very tangential. It's like a, a, a Domino's game. 

[00:05:20] Andreas Senie: Yeah. It's, it is an essential part of, of the cycle of real estate, you know, birth rebirth without it. Why? Why would I repair my asset? Why would I improve my asset? Why would I sell my asset? The longer I hold an asset, the more money I keep from the cash flow, assuming I pay down my debt.

And if the asset goes up in value, which is what we're here for, and I pay all that tax on it, I'm not going to want to sell it. It's just that simple. And if I'm not selling it, Chris's people aren't building it, and if Chris's people aren't building it, Becca's people can't market it, and the brokerage world has nothing to do.

Speaking of building and marketing, uh, Rebecca, you're to my right. I'm going to jump over to you. How is the investment world? How's the marketing world doing? here in May. 

[00:06:07] Bekah Carlson: So things are very busy looking forward to upcoming probably sector dependent. But for me, with the upcoming shopping center convention in Las Vegas, it's been all preparation all the time, last minute materials and brochures, finding a printer in Las Vegas for our backup.

Just in case things don't get printed in in our clients. Geographical areas are going to be doing actually shipping tomorrow, starting that process for various clients. So we're seeing a lot of activity there from a business development standpoint. That being said, my team is also in the middle of constructing a number of pitch decks and a number of investment opportunities, which is very exciting.

It's nice to see capital moving. It's nice to see projects all around the country. We're working on clients who have projects in Florida and Minnesota and Wisconsin, Chicago, all areas. Not, I'm so that's only four places. That's not all areas, but we are definitely seeing clients very busy with activity across the country.

And that's always a nice, hopeful and positive. Uh, microcosm and a microanalysis of the commercial real estate world. When capital is being raised and capital is being deployed, it's always good for commercial real estate. 

[00:07:28] Andreas Senie: And would you, just out of curiosity, back to 1031s. How many of those investments, investors, the people you work with, how many of them are involved with 1031 exchanges?

Does anyone not exchange if they can? 

[00:07:40] Bekah Carlson: Everyone exchanges if, if, and when they can, honestly, they have to. It's part of the property life cycle. It's part of the investment life cycle, that disposition and building and accumulating wealth over time. So often it's An investor will start with maybe a two flat and they might, and they leave bulb 

[00:07:56] Andreas Senie: off and they build up 

[00:07:58] Bekah Carlson: and then they refinance and they're able to reinvest that money into a three flat.

Then they might sell that initial two flat that they lived in, and then they go from there to a slightly larger multi-family building. Then they might go to a shopping center and that is building and amassing wealth for generations and it allows a, a starting point. And a continuation of growing wealth for a family.

And most owners are families. There are a number of big national companies that own and invest in real estate, but you have to realize most of those pension funding. So it's still invested by individuals. This is still my 401k. It's your 401k that's investing in these properties. So for commercial real estate to be successful benefits all people.

It's not just a few investors. Literally all of our 401ks diversified into, into these proper projects and these kinds of properties. There's always a real estate allocation. 

[00:08:56] Andreas Senie: Absolutely. And speaking of allocations in the real estate, without new developments, you spoke about. Capital moving projects all around the country.

We are absolutely seeing a pickup in activity here in the Northeast. Chris, I know Chris and I were just on the phone earlier talking about different projects that the government's putting out. Funds are getting released. Funds are available. C based money as well, but not just C based money these days.

Chris, how's, how are things on the development side? I know many of your projects, your journeymen out there. They're out there 

[00:09:29] Chris Abel: building and just kind of piggybacking off of what everyone was saying, you know, activity breeds activity. And that's really the people. So I've been out at a lot of events, a lot of events lately.

And I'll tell you what, the, the people that are out there and the people that I'm seeing most often, every single time I chat with them and we start talking about different projects and different things going on, they all have a story. And it's a legitimate stories. It doesn't mean that, you know, they're coming up with something you could tell because they're passionate about it.

They're passionate about it. They're excited about it. Um, I'm introducing them to more people and it's kind of going back and forth, back and forth. And, um, you know, I was at an event earlier this week. It wasn't necessarily all industry. It was a really good event for a good cause and there was a little pocket of the AEC industry kind of holding down probably quarter of the room and You know walking around we're putting raffle tickets in and start chagging.

I finally heard a couple people say It's been it's been bad. This year's been bad. And I didn't first of all, I didn't really know how to I didn't expect that but All that was going on through my head was, I, this is probably the first or second time I've seen you. I've been at everything. This is probably the first or second time I've seen, I've seen, and it was two, two, two companies in particular.

I'm like, Ooh, that's, you know, one plus one equals two. Every single time. So if you're not out there and you're not chatting with people and you're not talking to people and you're just kind of hanging out behind the computer, just putting those bids together and don't have a front facing individual, a group of individuals out there, then, yeah, it's gonna be a little bit more difficult and it's gonna be tougher because, you know, there's a lot of projects getting done, but only so many people can build them.

And the ones that are out there with the story, I'll tell you, it seems like they're, they're kind of catching fire. They caught fire early in the year and it's just continuing. So it's, it's interesting. Um, 

[00:11:25] Andreas Senie: the subs are just loving it. What's that? Right. Uh, so back to no CCNB, don't know, complaining, criticize, or blaming.

Exactly. Readers don't produce and producers don't complain. What are your subs complaining on? 

[00:11:38] Chris Abel: The subs actually, to be honest with you, they've been doing pretty well because the thing is there's. They don't have these giant, giant groups of, of, of trades, people working for them anymore. And if they do, that's what they have.

That's what they have. They don't, they aren't going to bring in if an electrician needs 10 more, 20 more electricians, it's not going to happen. They've settled in and they know that. So they know what they can handle at this point. If they're, if they're, there's a lot less biting off more than they could chew on the sub level.

So they're taking on the jobs that they can handle and they're trying to work and do the things that they can do. Um, so we're not complaining about GCs ever. They're never complaining about GCs or CNL, but that's, that's all part of the business too, though. 

[00:12:21] Andreas Senie: But what you're really saying is those that are in the market and actively executing, are they're making money?

[00:12:28] Chris Abel: They seem to be where a year and a half ago, two years ago, um, as quickly as that time went by on this show, it was, I'm just trying to keep the business open, keep the doors open and keep my people, you know, kind of keep my people fed. It seems like things have settled, um, a fair amount. We still have issues up here in Connecticut with apprentice ratio and, and things like that.

But, uh, So it's the 

[00:12:53] Andreas Senie: country and kids going to college. So, you know, I'm not thinking of it again. 

[00:12:57] Chris Abel: Well, real quick, I'll touch on this cause we talked about it previous to the show. So yesterday, um, ABC had their career day event, saw a spot in my heart for the event. That's where they found me. I used to be tabling had a booth.

It is the most hands on immersive, uh, construction career day experience. These high school students are getting in one day in the state. There's about nine, eight to 900 high school students. They come out, they get their PPE, brand new hard hat, brand new everything. They get a quick safety orientation from a real safety professional.

And they, we just unleashed them on heavy machinery. They're climbing up poles that the UI put in the day before they're learning about, I mean, they're learning about everything. I'm going to make sure I post the, uh, the news clip, um, in the, in the chat. I'll tell you what we limited. The amount of students a little bit, and we have a huge waiting list, but there were less students this year wearing their brand new, Hey, I'm here for a field trip.

Guess where I'm going tomorrow with their brand new college sweatshirt, university of Rhode Island, Yukon sweatshirts. That was always, every time I was there, that's what you saw. And yesterday you saw more kids coming out, hoodies, work boots. My teacher told me we were going to be doing some work. I didn't want to get my new shoes dirty.

You want me to wear a hard hat? I'm wearing a hard hat. The amount of kids I didn't have to remind, like the too cool for school, I don't want to mess up my hair. Three. Compared to literally, I'm telling you, eight, nine years ago, you have to stop every single one of them and be like, do you see what's going on around you?

You got to wear a hard hat yesterday. It was like, maybe because the hard hats are a little bit cooler this year to make it film with stickers. But 

[00:14:41] Anna Maria Kowalik: now I had a, there's hope. For you, Chris, because Yes. Today in one of the industry, um, uh, publications Yep. Uh, which has the name construction in it. Mm-Hmm. , um, uh, said that, um, private project spending was down.

Yep. And I have noticed, you know, still restraint, uh, with. say, and, um, even though slow, but steady, very st

there are still other fin that go into a project an

requiring more, giving less, uh, that kind of thing. So what has been your experience recently with that? 

[00:15:37] Chris Abel: I've seen, I've seen some projects put on hold, the kind of more attractive ones that they seem to get the funding. squared away a little bit quicker. Um, I was actually with a couple of developers earlier this week and I asked him about very specific projects, private, private projects, very specific projects that are close to my home and I drive by every single day.

And they kind of gave me the look of like, uh, let's not hold our breath on that one right now. And last I knew this was supposed to be like this was supposed to be a demo job, you know, two months ago. And now they've moved on to other things that I think their funding is coming a little bit, a little bit, you know, it's less, less cost.

And they're kind of jumping on that, um, jumping on that quicker. Everyone seems to be doing, uh, there's just so many, uh, multi Multifamily and, you know, large residentials, absolutely everywhere. Um, and the funding for that, I mean, you probably see more on your end. It seems like the funding for that because of the need has been a little bit easier to get as opposed to some of the, some of the retail stuff.

And there's been a lot of talk in Connecticut recently about, um, the malls, what they're going to be doing with the malls, that's a hot topic again. But I think there's such a cost. incurred with trying to do that. And if they can actually turn it into something that's attractive that I see some of the people I'm dealing with just kind of going with into, you know, some smaller jobs where they know that they can, they can build it, they can build it quickly.

They can get people to move in there and everyone will be happy. So I don't know if that answers the question. No, I 

[00:17:04] Anna Maria Kowalik: think that's key. Yes, absolutely. Because you know, uh, it's a little bit easier seeing things come together on the retrofit project. Then on the new constructions and so, uh, you know, that's been my own personal experience, but I just, uh, because I'm, uh, short for time today, I'm going to have to break in about 10 minutes away.

Um, actually, uh, I want to bring up a couple of things. So why I'm breaking away is, um, to join Dan Wagner and, uh, uh, Martin Luther King advisory committee. Um, uh, you may remember, uh, I think, uh, Dan talked about it before that, uh, the Inland Group was very instrumental in helping bring back the annual Martin Luther King breakfast in DuPage County here in, uh, in the Chicagoland area.

And so, uh, this is an old video. long, uh, build up. Uh, you know, we, we finished the breakfast in January and we're all ready to, uh, fundraising and, and, uh, getting community support on board. And so, uh, that's what I'll be doing right after this call. But, um, I wanted to speak to Becca's, uh, comment on ICSC, uh, you know, meeting in Vegas again in May, and so that's where a lot of Inland's time and efforts are going these days as well, uh, making sure to, uh, remind everyone to make their appointments, uh, with the appropriate people at Inland, and I, I, you know, Keep getting, uh, bombarded by emails daily, uh, from the different inland groups, uh, looking, uh, to make appointments either for acquisitions or dispositions for, um, uh, property improvements, uh, in under the property management segment and, uh, et cetera, et cetera.

So, um, certainly there's going to be a ton of inland experts there. And, uh, you know, so, uh, Make sure to stop by the booths this month, so 

[00:19:19] Andreas Senie: we will put it in the show notes. Yeah, absolutely. Along with Becca's luncheon, but go on. I know you got one more thing to say. 

[00:19:26] Anna Maria Kowalik: Absolutely no. And then I just wanted to, you know, uh, because Chris also brought up.

Uh, you know, going to another event that wasn't necessarily industry related, you know, but there are so many events going on right now, uh, many presentations that I'm doing, uh, uh, you know, I've got a full schedule of events. Let's put it that way. And some are charitable as well. And so this morning I spoke and represented Inland, uh, the Inland Group and Inland Green Capital at a regional scouting breakfast that had 150 people, municipal and county officials.

And, uh, and so the Inland Group continues to, um, you know, support the community, not just in the services that it provides from a real estate perspective, but also, uh, on the charitable side. And, uh, my husband and I are going to be walking for wellness on Sunday, um, which, uh, is, uh, For the Wellness House, uh, that does free cancer related services for families, uh, here locally, um, in, in DuPage County, in, in the Chicagoland area, and, uh, anyone can, uh, you know, seek out services.

there and they do a wonderful job and we are fundraising and this year, of course, remembering our deceased founding father, Dan Goodwin, and going to be walking on behalf of him and, and supporting, uh, the fine organization. So, uh, that is all that we are doing lately. 

[00:21:20] Andreas Senie: And Inland continues to always be buying, but you brought up a great point.

Inland is 51 plus years at this point. Oh, 

[00:21:27] Anna Maria Kowalik: 55 plus. 

[00:21:28] Andreas Senie: 55 plus. And as big as you are. You don't have to be out in the community. You have enough money to make money without being part of the community. But just like KW Commercial, just like Chris's group, Becca, I'm sure all our clients, we are part of the 

community.

[00:21:41] Andreas Senie: We give back, and by giving back, everything comes back to us. It's a karmic circle that works rather well. Kate, um, excuse me, Inland does it very well. Martin Luther King, uh, Dinner, DuPage, and not to mention, they created the DSD. So between CPACE and what you do in service and what you do for the community, you are full circle.

[00:22:03] Anna Maria Kowalik: Yes, we are. So just a little plug there before I leave, but I always enjoy the conversations with this great group of professionals and uh, wishing you all a great May and uh, hope to see you all again very soon. I'll I'll be on June's call for sure. 

[00:22:24] Andreas Senie: Looking forward to it. Thank you, Anne Marie. Say hi to Dan for us.

[00:22:27] Anna Maria Kowalik: I sure will. Take care, everyone. 

[00:22:29] Andreas Senie: Bye 

[00:22:30] Anna Maria Kowalik: bye now. 

[00:22:32] Andreas Senie: So, and circling back here as we go back to hyperlocal and being part of the community with this group, every one of us is in our community in a real way. Chris, I know you throw more events than probably anyone else I know here in Connecticut on behalf of your association, uh, which, which Breeds in a tremendous amount of retention, 95 percent and growing five years running.

Becca, you posted this lunch, what, for years? Five years? 10 years? 10 years? 

[00:23:00] Bekah Carlson: Close to 20. 

[00:23:01] Andreas Senie: Close to 

[00:23:02] Bekah Carlson: 20. This is my 20th conference. Okay, 

[00:23:09] Andreas Senie: 20th conference in Vegas at ITSC. This will also be in the show notes. And Chris, back to what you said about people showing up and actually showing up and being ready, willing and able to work and not, uh, being entitled enough to say, Hey, I don't want to work or I won't.

That marks a drastic change for me. That's news to me. You know, I'm excited to hear it in this space, 

[00:23:34] Chris Abel: you know, 

[00:23:35] Andreas Senie: you know, 

[00:23:36] Chris Abel: you know, it was interesting. No, it was interesting was, uh, just go back real quick. The retro retrofit instead of the new as far as building 

[00:23:44] Andreas Senie: reuse, adaptive reuse is 90 percent of buildings are headed that way.

It's cheaper. 

[00:23:48] Chris Abel: So it is it is, um, you know, a lot of a lot of contractors going out. You know, that, that's where there, I know there's a little bit of, um, you know, there's also a little bit of back and forth between the contractors and developers, the, you know, pretty much all entities, the owners, there's all the entities because, you know, there's a lot of costs, there's a lot of costs and there's a lot of, um, you know, there could be a lot of hidden costs in the retrofit stuff that, that the, the owners may not notice.

You know, that a contractor may notice or that a contractor may see. Um, and it's usually, you know, it could be mechanical, it could be site, it could be, you know, whatever the case is, it's usually not the, but in some cases, the contractors just want to kind of knock things down and start from scratch because they don't want to be responsible for what's going on.

Well, that's true across all our industries. 

[00:24:35] Andreas Senie: Yes. It's easier to start from scratch. Sometimes more expensive. Yes. Nobody wants to work on someone else's work. 

[00:24:42] Chris Abel: Yeah. I trust me. I, I chat it with Becky like this. I chat with someone in the marketing side today. And that was something that I, I basically was like, I just want to.

Do this. And like, I just want to kind of start, you know, pretty much start from, start from scratch on something. Um, but yeah, no, it's, um, the one thing, like I said, the event that I was, I was, it was interesting that the event that I went to earlier this week, the non industry event, it was a, it was a fundraiser event.

It gives you an opportunity to learn a little bit more about people. And get people realizing that it's not just the hours that we put in at work. It's not the email that they see from me at 11 o'clock at night. It's not the 7am that they're sending me. Um, I even had somebody, Oh yeah, find any new members while you're here?

And I'd kind of give them a look. And it's like, no, I'm not, I don't, it's not. 

[00:25:37] Andreas Senie: But those are the intangibles you're talking about when you're out and about, you're at these events, the intangible. Yes. We never know where business is going to come from. 

[00:25:45] Chris Abel: Yep. And then, and then on top of it, I mentioned about having that story kind of interesting that a couple of people I ran into that kind of were like, Oh, you know, it's just, it's been rough, you know, it's been a, you know, what show to say the least literally.

And I'm like, and this was a conversation between, it wasn't to me. It was a conversation between three or four people. So now you're, you're saying that in front of three people, which is fine. But it was one of those things where like, we're definitely not here for, we're not here for the industry right now.

We're here for a cause. And we're definitely not here for the more of the negative vibe. Nice people. It has nothing to do with that. Yeah. I saw the same person today. Drove by super big smile, wave. I wave it. It's all good, but it's one of those things where I'm like, Oh, and all I could think about was like, Oh, and this comes from my networking mind where I'm going, don't just stop, just stop.

Just don't do it because you're, you're just kind of. You had a bad day and you're causing it to make it seem like you've had a bad year. Maybe it hasn't been the greatest, but maybe it's not even that work related. Maybe it's, but it was just one of those things where I'm like, Oh man, you're, and then you're about to hear some really bad stories about some really bad stuff we're trying to raise money for.

And it really should put. You know, so I was kind of hoping they left with some perspective 

[00:27:16] Bekah Carlson: perspective. Yeah, right. 

[00:27:18] Andreas Senie: It could have been worse. You could have been the guy. It could have been in Hawaii during the fires. I mean, there's so much worse out there regardless of wherever you are in your life, 

[00:27:27] Chris Abel: but I do appreciate the honesty too.

So there's something to be said about that, but the trust in, in who they're saying it to and knowing, you know, 

[00:27:36] Andreas Senie: The confidence and the trust in you to talk about so freely with you, but it's, it's, it's difficult, right? I mean, look, I'm in rooms where there's absolutely a herd mentality and it's easy for people to complain and it's easy for people to fall into a slump.

Those aren't the rooms I want to be in, you know, and if that's the room, I go to another room. Plenty of rooms where people are succeeding. And, uh, if you're not hearing any news in life, you're not asking enough questions, right? You're not asking for enough business. And address. That's why, 

[00:28:07] Chris Abel: that's why I called you as soon as I left the event.

That's true. 

[00:28:12] Andreas Senie: That's 

[00:28:12] Chris Abel: a true story. Nobody complains of marketing though. Right? They 

[00:28:16] Andreas Senie: do. They just, they just call it pivoting. I mean, I don't know. Sorry. Go ahead.

What, uh, on the marketing side, let's talk complaining, pivoting, adjusting for today, 

[00:28:32] Bekah Carlson: you know, I think there's a, there's an element that when I'm ever, I'm talking to marketing strategy with people, we talk about like where your business is, where you want your business to be, and then we talk about like aspirational solutions.

Conversation around that because where you're at now is never where you're going to be. So building that even in to a strategic marketing plan or a strategic messaging plan, recognizing that there is an aspiration to it. There's something else you can be doing. There's something more you want to do with your company, with your business, with your career.

It's always got to be forward looking. It can't be rear view mirror. You cannot be looking back and be working on move on the next stage of life. And that's kind of a reality, right? Life has a little bit of that chapter concept of like, okay, so we had a bad chapter, we're going to close that. Cause we got to keep going.

And I think marketing in particular, by nature of the industry is almost always forward looking. We want to be reflect on and understand where we're at. But there has to be a roadmap of where you want to go. Otherwise there's no point in marketing. 

[00:29:39] Andreas Senie: Well, your rear view mirror is this big and your windshield is this big on purpose.

[00:29:45] Bekah Carlson: Exactly. Yes. 

[00:29:47] Andreas Senie: So 

[00:29:48] Chris Abel: go ahead. No, it's, it's, it's hilarious that you, you, I literally have the words future thinking past will come back to haunt you. I've always taken some notes kind of before. Our show as to remind me of little things, and I literally, those were the first two things I wrote about the idea of this, this future, you know, this future thinking.

Um, I actually love dealing with, I deal with a lot of individuals in marketing. I working with marketing and business development people as members. That's like, usually that's one of the keys to retention. Um, because they're the ones that will see the value quickest and they're the ones that can report back and be like, what do you mean not renew?

Like did you see this? Did you see that? You know, did you see this in the newsletter? Like there was no money out of pocket there that, that, that would originally cost me whatever, you know, we send a press release to him, he puts it out. But one of my favorite things about dealing with marketing, especially SMPs in Connecticut.

I'm not a marketer by trade. I just ended up landing in it a lot. So I'm there to learn, like I'm here to learn from Becca. I'm here to learn for the people from SMPS is when they walk into a place and they end up finding that closet or that space where they have all the old stuff. The old marketing stuff, artifacts because the owner and yeah, but not like the stuff that you're going to see in the business hall of fame.

You're talking. I found it today. I was upstairs at our stores saying, and I'm going, this stuff is for some reason, there's people in that office. I think it's going to come back. The old logo is going to come back and we're going to give away those stress balls instead of the new ones. And how many times, Becca, do you see that when you're, you know, You know, when you're out and about, it may not be figuratively, like literally, but even digitally, like, why are all those files there?

Why do you have, we haven't been artists where we have going retro on your brand. Yeah. But there's no intention of it. It's just, people don't want to throw it away. That, and then my marketing friends go in there like, we're, this is never coming back, throw all this old stuff away. So, and 

[00:31:54] Bekah Carlson: I would agree with that, but I had a client that was working on a flyer this week.

And I, there was something I wanted to have on it and it was a property that they used to own, just illustrating that they like kind of the portfolio that they've owned in this particular state. So the last time I was at that property, I was there with my family over spring break. We decided that we were going to take a detour because it was, it was a, parking lot in Gatlinburg, Tennessee.

And so we decided we're going to drive through the mountains and we're going to stop because I wanted to see the parking lot and it's a parking lot. You guys, not nearly as fancy as Saul's carwash. This is a surface lot. Like, uh, you know, a little bar up and down. So my youngest was in a stroller and she's 14.

So this was more than a day or two ago. I was so ecstatic when they added the company found in the old files. Because they sold this property at least 10 years ago, she found the picture of the lot and it took me immediately back to when I was there with my little baby in the stroller and my whole family dragged there over spring break and everybody looking around, of course, it's a parking lot and there's so excited because it was like the last property in the portfolio that I hadn't seen yet.

And I wanted to see them all. So even if I had to drag my family out of state for the break, so sometimes those archives are really fun. But again, For me, it was super fun and memorable to anybody else who looks closely at that picture and discovers all of the aged cars in the lot. It's going to, it is going to be a relic and part of a beautiful history, but certainly not something that you'd advertise.

Hey, come park here today. 

[00:33:38] Andreas Senie: Yeah. Well, it could be part of a proof stack. It could be part of your history as a company. And showcasing it that way, right? Yeah, you could have visited the world's biggest ball of twine, but this was the assignment, this parking lot on your 

[00:33:53] Chris Abel: group. I got a company, um, one of our members, uh, give a shout out Domac Restoration, great company out, up, up, heading your way, Andreas in Connecticut, but I think they're celebrating like their 30th or their 40th.

I can't remember. I think it might be the 30th. I don't know, but so I'm gonna, I'm gonna go back on what I said, because they had me come out. About a month and a half ago, because they're going to be doing a, I just got the invitation. They're going to be doing a celebration of their anniversary. And they had me come out just to chat about different things, get the wheels turning and it started turning towards some marketing stuff.

And that was one thing we talked about was the idea of, you know, pulling out some of the old photos, pulling out the old logo. Maybe doing a cost analysis piece in the corner of how much gas, how much shingles cost, how much, cause they do a lot of roofing, you know? So there is, don't get me wrong, there's value in those closets, but it's just, it's more like the paper stuff, the flyers in the, in the, you know, 

[00:34:54] Andreas Senie: Argument to go, you know, 

[00:34:56] Chris Abel: to not use paper.

Let's get

a shredder out there. You know, scan the nosal 

[00:35:04] Andreas Senie: of it. Let's push our brand. Well, you know, I, I struggle with marketing 'cause there's always a debate and who's right and who's wrong. Where it comes. 

[00:35:10] Bekah Carlson: Remember though, like it used to be press printed, not digital printing. So when I came in the industry, when I was, you know, much young, you know, 20 years ago when I started in the industry, it was before digital printing really happened.

So when we, when you printed brochures, we had folders and we printed like. Thousands of them, like 20, 000 of them, because they were going to be all the folders we were ever going to need. And they were on a printing press. Now, of course, these were folders that were date, the content was dated, the look and feel was dated.

It was early enough in my career that I think every image in there was of men only. So it wasn't even PC, and certainly not as, you know, as a society. So it cannot 

[00:35:55] Andreas Senie: be recycled now, but go on. 

[00:35:58] Bekah Carlson: So then when we moved offices two years later and already, like, digital printing had come into play, we'd already, of course, the address was wrong on all 20, 000 brochures.

Uh, we, and the printer was so kind and was storing them for us, so we told him he could keep them forever. Anyway. And that was the end of the brochures. 

[00:36:19] Andreas Senie: Thank you. But no thank you. You store them, you keep them. We're not picking those up. They're probably 

[00:36:23] Bekah Carlson: in some storage unit. I have no idea. I don't know if they dispose of them at that point or if, uh, they forget about them too.

[00:36:32] Andreas Senie: The, uh, funny enough, I was looking through our office the other day. And so I have. I've been through four brokerages now, historically, through my entire career, and I've got all the signs. And while EAC has survived through my partnerships, those other partners have not. It was fun to kind of look back. My logo has not changed, but everything else has kind of changed.

The tones and the different placement and the tagline, of course, has evolved. But, uh, it was always, it was always such a hardship for me to have that marketing conversation and to figure out how, what, when, and where and what worked best. And so we never changed it because it didn't work best the way it was.

Shameless fun. And to be fair, Carlson Integrated didn't help early on with a lot of marketing in some cases, especially at Corrections. But, uh, you know, as, as we said, we had in here to 640. So here we are, it's in May. We've got All these events coming up, you're saying you found a closet full of artifacts.

Maybe your number's the same and you can reuse them, but probably not. Maybe the swag's the same. What are you, what's your advice for these companies as we move forward? Because I'm hearing it both ways. A lot of people don't want to hand out cards. I'm the opposite of that school, right? I've got boxes of cards for days.

[00:37:43] Bekah Carlson: Mine just came yesterday! I just ordered a whole new set. I was so proud of myself for giving them all away. 

[00:37:50] Andreas Senie: Well, that's right. And I, and I still do snail mail, right? So we rarely get to go down to this route of marketing because of the breadth of the call and people on the call. But where are we in this world today?

I do print, I do media, I do retargeting. I dare say I'm on Twitter and Instagram. I'm sorry, X and Instagram now, cause I have to be. 

But 

[00:38:09] Andreas Senie: where should I be? Chris, you're out there getting new members. Becca, you're out there getting new members. syndicating and raising funds. What are you guys seeing success in your endeavors?

Mars market.

Relationships 

[00:38:22] Bekah Carlson: and referrals. You can't that's not marketing. 

[00:38:24] Andreas Senie: Relationships is networking. Hold on. Or is it marketing? 

[00:38:30] Chris Abel: I feel like I feel like marketing yourself, marketing your professional brand and reputation. I think is the biggest hosting the events. Hosting the events and pushing yourself. Okay. You know what?

I've I've been running into a lot is. A lot of people, this is going to sound really like, I don't mean it this way, but it's going to sound a lot of people talking about me and it's not, it's not like this, but they're talking like, you 

[00:39:01] Andreas Senie: are, you are a leader in what you do here for your association. So that's not a surprise, like, like with me, 

[00:39:07] Chris Abel: with me next to them, though, like, not like, Oh, like as if it's like Ricky Henderson, the old baseball player uses himself in the, you know, first person, Ricky did this.

Ricky did that. I'm talking like I mentioned something during the conversation and then someone says to the person next to them like this. He knows everybody. He knows everybody. You have to this guy. Yeah, like while I'm there and I just I don't necessarily take the compliments all that well, even though it is a compliment when people say that, but it's it's a compliment.

I've noticed a lot more of that. So again, activity breeds activity. So I just keep, I just want to keep going and just keep connecting and keep things moving and keep things moving. Because I know that my name is out there in these different spaces and in these different arenas. And I'm with the cards too, man, the, the, the hard, the hard business cards.

Yeah, I do the digital. I have a digital one on my phone, but I'll tell you what. I've never gotten a call. There's too many contacts in the phone. 

[00:40:15] Bekah Carlson: I don't remember his names. Yeah. I feel badly, but. 24 hours later, I've met 50 people at events like the conference. I can't remember who what name is with which person 

[00:40:28] Andreas Senie: I'll give a pro tip to those out there those who have seen me at events enough times So when you hand me your card two things if one your card is made of plastic and I can't write a note on it You might as well back in you second Uh, depending on what pocket you go into is going to dictate whether I follow up with you.

Right. So there's a, you know, and I won't say which pockets are here because some of the people in our audience, I'm sure have given me their card and that's right. But that's how I prioritize at the event. That's how I know what, when it wears that hard card. When someone just texts me their info, they're there with 2000 other contacts.

I don't know if it just tried a true way to do it. contact. 

[00:41:14] Bekah Carlson: I write at the end of the night. I always write notes on them about what we talked about, how I can tell why I'm 

[00:41:22] Andreas Senie: following up, you know, a little star, maybe, um, you know, chasing Jonathan Stein around ICSC, you know, running those aisles where you're picking up cards, you're talking to people.

There's my shout out to Jonathan. Hopefully he's at Vegas. Um, there's no, there's no better way to do it. And then you have little steps. I mean, and I look, I'm a technologist. I've got the best CRM and tech there is, but I've still got. cards from every event and every person I talk to, and, you know, I refer back to them.

That's how I get to point you to outside of our company, wiki and CRM system. So 

[00:41:56] Bekah Carlson: actually when you talk, that's, it's interesting, right? You're, you were asking about marketing and whether going to events and whether word of mouth and referral is marketing. But when you think about that act of giving somebody something, And having a real conversation that involves followup, that involves an exchange of an item with not a formal promise, but like, it's an unspoken agreement.

To know each other to like to 

[00:42:27] Andreas Senie: trust each other. You're extending hands. There's a whole built in language of sales there. Couldn't agree more on that front 

[00:42:33] Bekah Carlson: and sales and marketing have to work together. Can you imagine that process, Andreas, if your business card was black and had nowhere to write on it and you didn't have, and it was plastic and, and, or had a shiny finish and the pen would, you know, smudge all over it.

[00:42:50] Andreas Senie: I know who you are. Yeah, 

[00:42:54] Bekah Carlson: that's why you're my right mark because as sales you tell marketing what you need and you get that feedback that forward facing feedback is so critical to marketing because marketing's job is to help like that all right just help people 

[00:43:09] Andreas Senie: no well that's that's actually a fantastic point i've consulted with quite a few tech companies and they They kind of get lost in the thought of marketing can do it for me.

The greatest marketing move that ever happened was that marketing sold itself as a solution to sales. Hey, if we market enough, we don't need to sell them. And the tech will work through and people will just onboard and sign up and they'll use our services. But at the end of the day, people want to meet each other.

They want to work with people they like. So marketing is there to make sure that people know that, Hey, this is someone I might like to do business with from where I sit. 

[00:43:44] Chris Abel: So go back on the, um, the, just the business card, the cards in general. This is like, I still, everywhere I go, if there is a cork board 

[00:43:55] Andreas Senie: in the property, 

[00:43:57] Chris Abel: I.

So here's the thing I've gotten. Okay. Let's say I've been with ABC for five and a half years. I've gotten one phone call off of one of those cards. Okay. And the phone call was kind of actually bumped into the guy, uh, last week and, and he remembered it and I kind of remembered after he mentioned it and that was it, but the phone call wasn't anything substantial.

The intention isn't necessarily has, I really have no intention of. I don't expect anyone to pick up those cards and, and, uh, and call me, but my members, my contacts, you know, how many of them have sent me a photo of my own cards? 

[00:44:39] Andreas Senie: It's you're 

[00:44:43] Chris Abel: there without being there. So you were there for that coffee meeting, but now you're there for until your next coffee meeting.

Because you're going to see if they're still out there and you could reposition them. I know it's like, it's such simple thinking, but at the same time, it's so important for my network, but especially my members to know that, that, that I'm out, that I'm out there, that I'm working, that I'm running, that I'm doing this, I'm doing that.

And. You know, the, the, in the amount of the amount of calls I've gotten from the people who have taken my digital business card, same thing. I might've got one or two that I know I'm getting lost in the shuffle. By the way, I love the idea of the pockets. All I can think about is like an old, you know, you're 

[00:45:25] Andreas Senie: thinking back to when you saw me at an event with you and I'm showing where the hell he put my 

[00:45:29] Chris Abel: pocket.

He definitely put my card. God knows where, but, uh, but yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's true though. It's true that, um, You know, I just there's these little things that, you know, the little things and they always go back to like what Beck was saying. It's always the personal touch. It's always something a little more, quite frankly, almost away from technology.

A lot of the times, um, that usually gets it done at the end of the day. 

[00:45:58] Andreas Senie: Well, especially today keeping it human instead of AI or robotic and so on. I will admit I have an AI tool that works in my email now that helps me draft emails. 

And 

[00:46:11] Andreas Senie: while yes, your vacation was incredibly important and your kids are very important to me, that part of my email, not that I'd ever do this to you or my listeners here, maybe that was my AI assistant who wrote that part thanking you for all those things and following up.

Maybe. It exists. It's all there for you today. Which makes the in person even more important. And dare I say, Becca, I don't know if you know this or not, or at least can speak to the numbers here. I've had two marketing companies and they might have been selling me, uh, trying to tell me that print is People are now on their way back to print marketing as opposed to digital because there's less noise Like that's where I should spend my money.

[00:46:50] Bekah Carlson: I I actually or is there 

[00:46:52] Andreas Senie: anything to back that? Um, 

[00:46:55] Bekah Carlson: look, if you talk to print advertising companies, they have fantastic statistics. Now, have those been properly vetted by any authoritative source? I would not know the answer to that. Uh, but certainly, certainly for better or for worse in this day and age, you can kind of find statistics that'll skew any direction you want to go.

We 

[00:47:20] Bekah Carlson: served, yeah, nine out of 10 people surveyed. All nine of my friends who I surveyed and that one guy who I didn't like and survey said the other thing, right? Like there's, there's a reality that where the data is from does matter when it comes to authoritative statistics. And that's part of the noise though.

Quite frankly, I do know subjectively, I was talking to a wealth advisor a couple of weeks ago, very, very sweet guy. And he's like, I was quoted this amount from a mailing house and a mailing company. I think I want to try it. And I said, okay, So how are they doing, what's their methodology of finding who to send it to?

And he said, well, they're doing it houses of such and such a range. And then I said, well, are they doing everyday direct mail through the USPS, which is by far the least expensive and you can select your mail routes. It's a fantastic tool. If you're going to do. Print mailing. I use the, I mean, the postcards they do.

[00:48:13] Andreas Senie: Those are the big postcards. Yeah, 

[00:48:15] Bekah Carlson: they can be multiple sizes. You don't have to, you just have to be within some sort of confines, right. Of, of their parameters, you can do anything creative you want. And it's very inexpensive. When he told me the price, I said, he's like, unless you don't think that's good.

And you guys would want to do it better. And I was like, me. Licking stamps. Just kidding. I know you can't lick stamps anymore, by the way. I know they're all stickers. Or they're Indeshas that go through a mailing machine. But, like, the thought of mailing 600 things because I could do it four cents cheaper, it's like, meh.

I was like, actually, that's a really good price. You should try it. Like absolutely try it because I actually think it's a kind of a low threshold to try. And when compared with online advertising, there are certainly opportunities to do online advertising at a low entry rate. 

[00:49:02] Andreas Senie: So, but, 

[00:49:04] Bekah Carlson: but every online advertising company I've spoken with doesn't want to work with people who want to come in a low entry rate, they want to work with people who have at least a thousand plus dollars a month of advertising dollars for an online digital ad.

And most people don't want to go in at that entry point. So there is a, there's a gap. 

[00:49:27] Andreas Senie: Well, isn't it more well, and I've seen online, you buy an ad like Facebook ads. It's a spigot, right? You just set up your budget and you go. And if you don't know better, it doesn't go anywhere. It's not trackable. There's no return.

I will argue on the postcard side for a moment. There's no better way than me mailing in a letter. The letter might've been printed, but the letter to a property owner and getting my business card on his desk, then sticking the same person for what I do. 

[00:49:55] Bekah Carlson: Letters. 

[00:49:56] Andreas Senie: Yeah, I do. I 

[00:49:57] Bekah Carlson: love letters. 

[00:49:58] Andreas Senie: So that there's tip to watch out for what pocket and use letters, because now we're at the top of the hour.

Real letters, not printed letters. Um, because who knows what's in your email, if you're talking to a real person on email. Chris, how are you? Go ahead. 

[00:50:15] Bekah Carlson: Or Andreas's AI tool on email, now I know. 

[00:50:18] Andreas Senie: Well, yeah. Matter of fact, I got called out on it by one of the attorneys in a transaction. He goes, Hey, um, so, and I went up, yeah, no, I have an AI assistant.

So 

we 

[00:50:30] Andreas Senie: still need to teach it. It still hallucinates. I'm still, I'm still saying firmly that it will not replace real estate professionals, a real estate professional that uses it. We'll replace one that doesn't just like a real estate professional that drives a car can get to see more properties than one that rides a bicycle.

You know, it's a simple statement, right? Um, I'm sure the same is true in construction, right? We've got our screw gun and we've got the guy with the screwdriver. But as we hit that top of the hour, Chris, what is the one big thing? It seems like we're going to have a workforce. They're coming. They're not entitled.

I'm so excited. Projects will get built. What is the one big thing you wanted to give back to this audience of now over 3000? 

[00:51:14] Chris Abel: Yeah, you know, you're right there. There's. There's it's going to be. It's going to be years of struggling with the workforce type of stuff. There's no no two ways about it. Um, one takeaway that I'll throw out there is that something that impressed me yesterday at the event I was I was involved with is that it seems like the educational.

The high schools, the middle schools, the guidance counselors, the career counselors are starting to catch up. They're starting to catch on. So if you're in the industry and if you're dealing with the industry and you're dealing with contractors on the commercial side, especially or on the residential side, is To stop and take some time to talk to some people that might be able to keep helping this along, you know, when you, if a school is looking for some, I've been involved with a couple of career fairs lately.

If a school is looking for someone to come talk, maybe give it a little bit of thought and understand that if you give back for maybe 45 minutes, you might actually be able to get yourself, you know, a couple of plumbers, a couple of HVAC techs down the road. Um, You know, you got to be focused on the future, that future thinking.

And that's the part I was thinking about that future thinking. So the past doesn't just keep coming back to haunt people. And, um, you know, these companies aren't stepping over a dollar to save pennies all the time, like get out there, talk to more people about the trades, explain what, what, what it's about, but also.

My request for the industry is don't sugarcoat it either. Don't sugarcoat the construction industry. Don't sugarcoat what it is. Don't sugarcoat the fact that it's not done safely and done right. It is safe, but it is also a very dangerous profession. There are also things that it's not going to do anyone any good if someone doesn't come in fully prepared to be in the construction industry.

And what I mean by that is. Physically, they can do the work if they have to. But mentally, they know exactly what the obstacles are. They know. Not not. I'm not doing it to sound like more, but they got to know that there, you know, substance abuse issues in everything. But the construction rate, substance abuse issues, sub suicide issues that you got to have.

It won't do anyone any good if they step out there for 2345 years. They get themselves injured, a little minor injury, and then they end up on pills and stuff like that. It won't do them any good if they end up, it's not gonna do their family any good. And it's not gonna be able to pass it on to the next generation.

If they look up and see that mom or dad. You know, couldn't hack it in that in that field. So it's a matter of having real conversations with these kids, not just going, Oh, I need plumbers. I need this. Oh, I need that. We gotta teach them. We gotta rip the phone out of their hand and and teach them how to do this stuff.

They need to be mentally prepared for this. This is not, there's too much of a broad focus on like, get them in the schools and get them trained, get them in the schools and get them trained. My, my nervous part of me is always like, all right, well, what are we taking care of on the other end? Are we, are there, are there systems in place to make sure that they understand what they're actually getting into?

And they're not just hearing that you can, you can make a great living, make good money, my buddy, who's in construction house, all these toys. That's you got to be able to kind of get them to understand that there's, there's a lot more, there's a lot more to it. If you're a good, strong, independent thinking human being, and you become mentally strong and become skilled, the world truly is your oyster at that point, but you gotta be ready to go.

You gotta be ready to understand. You can't just. You know, it's not the hammer swinging, you know, you know, hammer swinging, you know, cursing and, and, and spitting days of old here. You gotta, you gotta, you gotta be able to, to dig in and really know what you're doing and be financially stable and save your money and all these little things and invest in property, right?

[00:55:20] Andreas Senie: Always a good time to buy commercial real estate. It is the safest asset to invest in. And not only that, it's the only asset and the only investment where insider trading is not only allowed, it's encouraged. So your network really is your network. Uh, but, uh, that being said, you're right. It's the, the resilience people need resilience and they need endurance and they have to just work through it and be given a chance to, 

[00:55:44] Chris Abel: And the only other thing is for the other side, someone going into the industries, don't wait, don't, don't wait for someone to train you.

[00:55:52] Andreas Senie: And don't ask chat JPT to give you the answers. Find someone, find a person to give you the answers. 

[00:55:57] Chris Abel: And watch where Andrea is going.

[00:56:04] Andreas Senie: I can't, I'm so curious what emails are going to show up now. Like, but to be fair, uh, you know, I learned how to network and do these events in the school of. You're hitting every booth. And for those of you that have been to ICNC Vegas, that's a lot of steps, right? There's a lot of people there. So you have to, you have to be, uh, fast on your feet.

And, uh, it's a, it is certainly a contact sport. Becca on your side, what's your one takeaway for the industry this month? 

[00:56:35] Bekah Carlson: Uh, I, I just, Chris, I appreciate so much all of the pieces that you just went through and the complexities. Of adulthood and work. Quite frankly, when we talk about training up a next generation in any of our industries, there's a reality that that adulthood is hard.

And, uh, I have two, uh, young adults in my home or in my family right now and training them. In such a manner has become really a top priority and I'm understanding better some of the challenges that come along with fast and easy money and hard and low salaries. And you know, there's, there's complexities on both sides, but when we think about the future and our forward facing.

I think we all know, and we've all experienced you keep moving. You don't stop. And I think that's been the piece that we've talked about so much today. And I appreciate like Chris is out and about at things. I'm out and about with things. Andres is out and about at things because we know that you can't stop.

And, uh, and COVID is long past now to the extent that everything's in, everything is in person and online and coming at you from all directions, but you got to keep moving. You can't be discouraged or overwhelmed by the fact that there's so many opportunities. You have to grab them. You have to take hold of them.

This is each of us has the opportunity to define our own future and to grow and maximize our future. So keep going. Don't give up. You got this, guys. 

[00:58:14] Andreas Senie: Tomorrow is better. Uh, tomorrow will be better than today. And we're not stuck at home and stuck in COVID. Exactly right. To Chris's point, and Becca, your point, it's, we don't stop moving.

We go find the right room, we find the right opportunity, and we execute against it. That's it. And as far as the, my piece to the industry, and to everyone is, technology's here to let you, To allow you or to facilitate you working smarter and working further and further from your home base or further and further from your comfort zone.

So there is business to be had. There's business out there. Go get it. Grow with us. Grow together. Come out. Meet us at ICSC in Vegas. Coming up here on May what, Becca? 

[00:58:55] Bekah Carlson: May 19th. May 21st. 

[00:58:57] Andreas Senie: There you go. At the luncheon or otherwise. Ellen will also be there. Come see us in London at CRE Tech London, the Europe's leading global technology and sustainability conference, as well as here in our own backyards or on the show once a month, first Thursday of the month.

Thank you to our audience for tuning in. Thank you to my co hosts for showing up, for bringing so much to the round table and to my business and personal life every month. This is my favorite part of the month, where we sit down and talk. Download our show anywhere you get your audio. Apple, Google, uh, Spotify, Stitcher, Pandora, or just ask your Alexa by Alexa to tune in to The Roundtable.

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