WHAT AI AND CHATGPT REALLY MEAN FOR REAL ESTATE PROFESSIONALS AND INVESTORS

[00:00:00] Andreas Senie: Welcome back to this month's round table. You're all in one comprehensive view of what's happening across the real, real estate industry, straight from some of the industry's earliest technology adopters and foremost, experts in technology, marketing, brokerage, government policy, capital construction, and cybersecurity.

As always, a first introductions to our cohost, what's happening in their sector, followed by the biggest trends and news affecting the industry, and to wrap up what it all means for your business, how to stay competitive and take the lead in your market. I'm Andrea, founder Siri, collaborative brokerage owner.

Commercial director here at KW in Connecticut, as well as a technology strategist. Joining me this month is not Saul Klein, emeritus Data Advocate, futurist and executive editor of Realty Times. Saul, nice to see you as to be here. Also, joining us is Chris Abel, membership director and associated builders and contractors and member of the Society for Marketing Professional Professional Services, alls Construction, all the time development.

And Chris, nice to see you. We saw you last month for a moment. Didn't hear you, but we're happy to have you back. Yeah, big, big tech, 

[00:01:39] Chris Able: big technical issues. I'm happy to be back. So 

[00:01:43] Andreas Senie: and as always, Rebecca Carlson. Also joining OUTTA Chicago, founder of Carlson Integrated C Integrated President Broker. Becca, nice to see you.

Great to be. And lastly, but not least, certainly Annamaria Kok, SVP at Inland Green Capital, all things green and growing. And let not forget Professor Darren Hayes, who's also joined us for the call, all Things Cybersecurity. Welcome everyone. And Anna Maria, you're to my right. So I've gotta ask how are things going?

I'm looking forward to talking with everyone. It's been a busy month for me in the Northeast. I'm sure things have been heating up on your end as well. 

[00:02:28] Anna Maria Kowalik: Extremely busy on this end. From a sea pace perspective, we've just been, uh, getting slammed with requests and inquiries, um, you know, hoping that we can see some of these to fruition.

Uh, it seems that the new construction. Uh, projects that are coming to the table, uh, actually have some funding now and are going to be getting there. Uh, and retrofits are picking up because, um, you know, I, I think the weather's had a lot to do with it and we've had an unseasonably warm, uh, winter here in, in Chicagoland, and so, um, I think people are looking toward the spring and, and their upcoming projects.

[00:03:14] Andreas Senie: Well, and real deal just cited Chicago as one of the best markets for investment. 

[00:03:20] Anna Maria Kowalik: Hey, you know, despite our politics and everything else, and we're always in the news . But, uh, yes, yes, we definitely, uh, have a lot going on here and a lot to be proud of. Um, you know, despite all the rest, . 

[00:03:35] Andreas Senie: Well, I'm super excited to hear things are continuing to do well and that deals are getting funded.

I'm gonna be curious to, to unpack that a bit later. So you're just here to my next box on the Zoom window. How are things in California, the sunnier side of the country? Well, 

[00:03:52] Saul Klein: unfortunately it hadn't been as sunny as we like, and so at least as I, as I. Right. So I looked at the statistics here at the San Diego, multiple listing services to see residential, how it's been going the last month, and listings are down 14%, listings sold down 11%, and active listings, uh, down 4%.

So no telling why or where, you know, could be seasonal. Those aren't big numbers, but I thought that was interesting. But I can tell you, as the owner of a carwash, when it rains, you don't make any money, at least in California. And so we've had a lot of rain, it's very cold, a lot of hail. And that makes me think of climate change and valuation of property based on possible climate change, those types of things.

And I don't know where I could go with that, but the carwash reminded me of that as I looked at the, uh, revenues for the last month. 

[00:04:45] Andreas Senie: Well, you, you've gotta go to Chicago and open a carwash there and open one here in Connecticut. This way you'll always capture good weather somewhere. Uh, Chris. Construction design.

How are you? How are things 

[00:05:00] Chris Able: good? You? It's funny you say that when, uh, we finally got a day of snow this week here in, uh, here in Connecticut. So, um, all good on our end. I mean, we're, you know, I, the contractors that I'm dealing with and everyone I'm talking to, they seem to be, uh, kind of cranking along. It seems like everyone's evened out a little bit in regards to some of the issues they're having with, uh, staffing.

I mean, it's gonna be an issue and continue to be an issue, but, uh, I'm seeing some, uh, collaborative work going on with, um, contractors and, uh, you know, things are, things seem to be moving. It seems to be getting a little bit busier, um, to kind of kick off the month here. 

[00:05:37] Andreas Senie: So, so outside of the MLS numbers, being down in inventory, being tighten in California, deals are getting funded.

Contractors and offers are back to work. We're still definitely afraid of ransomware. I'm sure. Darren, on your end of the, which is gonna bring me right around to marketing in just a minute, um, how are things on your end, Darren? 

[00:05:58] Darren Hayes: Yeah, everything's good. Uh, a lot of people still talking about ransomware and uh, you know, I've been doing a lot of work on Windows 11 and seeing, you know, some of the changes, uh, from a security per perspective.

And, you know, they've, they've, you know, built this new operating system upgrade in terms of fending off ransomware, um, using in terms of hardware, tcpm securities. We could talk about that, but I won't go to too much detail. But, um, the idea as well behind Windows 11 and a lot of the, the security measures that Microsoft has been introducing is integrating.

Artificial intelligence and machine learning, AI and, and ml and, uh, you know, was at a conference sharing occurrence recently where, you know, this was discussed a lot. You know, how AI is going to help us in the security world by sharing threat intelligence from lots of different companies. Maybe they're, you know, keep using Windows systems for and how that's been used to quickly identify other computers on the internet that may be at risk.

Um, I heard interesting conference, 75% to 80% of companies are using AI and, uh, Microsoft now integrated, uh, and AI into their Bing search engine and, and which is kinda an interesting move. So we're seeing, you know, the evolution of chat g pt, you know, become part more of search engines now, but, uh, 

[00:07:37] Andreas Senie: Well, it's, I'm, I'm excited to see the day that the, they start to use AI for scheduling of the labor force for those developments.

So we can really push, uh, push that extra, uh, the extra income off our projects. Right? Move that bottom line, just that little bit by making sure that everything's getting done by planning those resources down to the minutes. And speaking of resources, um, the most resource heavy thing I've heard, and most companies I'm talking to here in Connecticut is, is marketing.

Everybody is trying to get back out there. Back down. You're, you're there in Chicago, which is. As I said recently, noted, best, best market to invest in. Do not tell Dan I said that after we argued about it with , Dr. Lawrence from, uh, n ar, . How are things? 

[00:08:29] Bekah Carlson: Well, we try to be a resource, well, providing resources, , so it is all about resourcing and marketing is so critical.

It's wonderful hearing Darren speak about some of the AI pieces. We're actually working on integrating like Power Automate and some of the Microsoft things into our own workflow and modernizing our own work streams here at Carlson Integrated. So it's, there's so many areas where our businesses, all that we all do here, like these really cool intersections, which I guess is right, that's why we're here in the right, in the first place is cause all of our business areas and uh, areas of expertise really do have really neat intersections.

And I continue to see that as far as marketing is concerned. . 

[00:09:15] Andreas Senie: It's uh, just the other day I helped a, an office manager put chat G p T into Excel and, and he was blown away. He was, he was manually moving things around. I said, you know, you integrate. He was using to build a list of s for this case, and, and it did it, and in that area it's, it's incredible.

It's those tasks that it can do for you, um, at speed, which, who knows how far and why that's going to go. You know, my belief and, and many others, you can't teach common sense to ai. So us, the commercial brokerage industry will be just fine as well as development industry and even the carwash industry for a time.

So I'm thinking over there, can you replace it? You know, I, when I look at chat, 

[00:10:04] Saul Klein: G P T, I think more of just natural language search. That's what I think of natural language search. So, um, I had a realtor ask me for a script, could you help me write a script for cold calling FSBOs? Well, I haven't sold residential real estate for other people in years.

So I went to Chad g p t and I said, can you write me a script for, and it came up with this great script and nobody knew it came from Chad g p t. And then somebody else asked me a question about recruiting. How do I recruit more? Oh, that's great. And I'm gonna go ask natural language search instead of just.

Choice is coming up where I can go. It's actually gonna have a conversation, uh, with me about it. And my wife was bacon and she said, um, how many teaspoons in a cup? And, um, so rather than go Google it, I went to chat g p T and I asked how many teaspoons that are tablespoons in this every tablespoons in a cup?

And it told me 16. And so there are all kinds of uses of what we're calling AI that people aren't even thinking of. And the kind of the beauty of this too is you can have a conversation. I bought some bananas at Costco and I, and they, like, we still have 'em, they're still green, they're almost three weeks old.

And so I thought this is weird that bananas would stay green. I don't know about you, but I've never seen bananas stay green for more than a couple days. And so I went and asked Chad, he gave me this list of different reasons why bananas might stay green. So I figured out that really the power of this is figuring out what questions to ask.

And I then I said, you know, my high school, they knocked the high school down, um, in the seventies and built a new one. Can you tell me why? And it said, no, that high school's still there. And I went back, I said, no, it's not there. And then it answered me. And then I said, well, your information is incorrect.

They not knocked it down. That high school was built in 1929. It came back and said, I apologize, , you're correct. Right? And so what I did is I gave it more information to go back. And so it's a fascinating, uh, you hear people talking about it, but I think they don't do it justice when we call it ai, I think really it's just this natural language search capability and once you get into it, it is so much better than searching your way.

At 

[00:12:22] Andreas Senie: least that's my perspective, . Well, the what will the day I'm waiting, the thing I'm waiting for most isn't so much, uh, having the AI write things for me. But it's having the AI tell me how to better prioritize my time and my day to be more efficient in my tasks because I, you know, I like many others, I block time.

I have, I have different tools and tricks to get my day to get through my day, but I find the days are getting longer. And, uh, if the AI can help me there, I'm all for it. Um, cause I'm still gonna call my clients and I'm certainly not gonna. An AI tool, tell me how to talk to my clients. I'm just, that'll never happen for me.

Yeah. But it might help 

[00:13:08] Saul Klein: you figure out what better things to say . 

[00:13:12] Andreas Senie: Uh, that my clients, my clients will tell me, don't fire me if I don't say the right things. , 

[00:13:17] Chris Able: you have to put the clients on hold. Hold on a second. I need to get an answer as to how long I need to be on the phone with you for. 

[00:13:23] Andreas Senie: Well, Google had a system, um, where, where you didn't, it was an attendant and it was ai and you didn't know whether or not it was ai.

So I, you know, I'm gonna push back there and say that chat, chat, bots, chat, customer service, any of these non-human customer facing solutions, especially in commercial real estate, are, are still way too far off for adoption. I mean, backend systems helping create content. Um, there's one AI tool I heard of back that, that, you know, does the images and the videos.

I think it's fantastic that I don't need a production crew. Just kidding. Reagan, I know you're back there.

But as far as moving forward in the industry, what can I build and how can I build it? That'll be an interesting question to pose. That's the key is asking the 

[00:14:13] Saul Klein: right 

[00:14:14] Andreas Senie: questions. So here you have places, Saul coming out in these different technologies coming forward, what do you thinks going to happen with this AI with in the next three months With the latest tech?

With this shift, we've been through an economic shift. I'm busier than ever. All the, all the deal makers and the people who are kinda involved in the industry are no longer around. So it's only serious operators looking to do deals, um, which is why the days are getting much. Right. We're

Anna pointed. Chris, what are, what are your thoughts?

[00:14:59] Chris Able: My, so you got 

[00:15:02] Andreas Senie: it. 

[00:15:03] Saul Klein: Ah, well, I think that, um, that the, we have more power now, more computing power and artificial intelligence, machine learning, whatever you wanna call it, to be able to, uh, give us greater transparency into data in ways we've never looked at it before. And so you're right at places and other things that I'm looking at, I'm seeing, uh, there's a great use for this possibly in decision making, always in decision making.

But in particular, if I acquire a property, how long do I keep it? If I acquire a property, do I put a loan against it or do I hold it free and clear? And do I do this based on. not only the property in the area, uh, the property's located in, but in the surrounding property and in the uses of the surrounding properties.

Mm-hmm. . And how does that compare to other marketplaces? And take a, a look at people buying loans and then foreclosures that might come from the loans. And if, if I'm in the marketplace for buying loans, what part of the country should I buy the loans? Where's the greatest risk? What's the loan type that has the greatest risk?

Let's just say maybe it's FHA with low down payments. So what marketplace has a greater number of those types of loans that might make a, another marketplace a better marketplace for me to invest? So I say lots of different uses of it in, uh, different, all different aspects of investing. And again, it's early, but you know, what is early?

The self, the iPhones only been around smartphones for, what, 15 years? So the, the, the cycles really a lot faster than it used to be. And, uh, so three months is like it's dog years now, right? ? 

[00:16:46] Andreas Senie: Well, so Darren can speak to that, to how quickly technology is advancing. But at the end of the day, as humans, as professionals, as advisors, everyone on this call, you know, our wisdom.

We leverage our wisdom and our experience. AI is at, at its core, has to leverage data. How do we know that that data is even good quality? Well, you dunno what's going, 

[00:17:07] Saul Klein: you're gonna have, it's gonna take time. So what I always tell people is the human being, that the, the advantage the human being has is understanding nuance.

And right. So it's the nuance. That's the power. And so if you can deliver nuanced services, that's powerful. But what's to say that AI can't get better and better and better over time at dealing with understanding nuance? And I don't know the answer, but I think the direction is that human beings have to work more on that nuanced delivery.

And that's what you're talking about, Andreas, right? Understanding your client and uh, and the AI's right behind you, and learn how to use it as a tool. . 

[00:17:46] Anna Maria Kowalik: Well, nuanced delivery is, is certainly one thing, Saul, I'll totally agree with you on that. Um, although, uh, there are certain other things like, for example, that humans just have to take action on.

I'm, I'm gonna share a little personal story, um, because since we all last met, um, most of you know that my dad passed away. And, uh, the fact is that no matter how hard, uh, you try sometimes to prepare for that inevitability, uh, and, and, and I mean from his perspective before he passed, uh, throughout his, uh, his life and especially his older years, he tried to put things in order, uh, so that when the time came, it would be easier to handle and.

I'm overwhelmed. , uh, what you think is. isn't. And so this is a financial lesson. It applies to real estate, it applies to every aspect of your life. You can't take things for granted, and you as the human being, have to take initiative and have to make plans and do things for family, for your loved ones, for your spouse, or, uh, you know, whoever it is, or how many other people that is, that you're leaving behind, uh, or, you know, or just to be able to have a legacy that, uh, uh, is meaningful and, and, um, you know, and, and I don't mean financially necessarily, uh, because the finances go, let me tell you, uh, for those of you listening in who don't know what this is all about, He was in an assist.

Oh, he was in a, uh, I'm sorry, skilled nursing facility that cost near $12,000 a month. How does one prepare for that? The, these are questions that you'd have to ask yourself, and we're, I think, a lot farther from that than we are from those real estate questions that you asked the chatbot, uh, chatbot on.

But, you know, these are the kinds of things that we have to really take into account and have to understand for our financial, our real estate futures, what happens to our assets, what, you know, um, and, and we can, I tell you right now, we can never know enough. 

[00:20:27] Andreas Senie: Well, so you brought up a good point there. The, or I think you brought up an interesting point.

We can never know enough, but it's not that we can never know enough. Those are all hard conversations to have. Yeah, and I wonder if the application for this AI is that come to Jesus conversation if it's, if it's with your client and it's advising your client on what they should do with that portfolio, 

[00:20:52] Anna Maria Kowalik: but then they have to take the action ultimately

I hope so. Which my father always do. 

[00:21:00] Andreas Senie: Well, and And I'm so sorry for your passing. Anna Maria, thank you. Is in a better place. 

[00:21:06] Anna Maria Kowalik: Yes, absolutely. 

[00:21:08] Saul Klein: Absolutely. 

[00:21:08] Andreas Senie: Certainly. , you know, one of the, 

[00:21:11] Saul Klein: I, I carry this, uh, long-term healthcare insurance. Mm-hmm. , right? Mm-hmm. . And so it's just Anna Marie. It's just for that kind of situation, right?

Because it's incredibly expensive and I just gotta notice, and I've been paying for this for years, where either I can decrease the amount of money I get, or they're gonna increase the premium, right? And so now here's a decision that needs to be made, and you need to have that discussion with the family about what, how are we gonna do it?

We're gonna pay more money, we gonna pay the same amount of money and take less coverage in the future. And then the other side as you, hopefully you never have to use it, right? So you don't know. It's one of those kinds of things, right? Ensuring something you pay for, hoping you never have to use it. And.

Yeah. In a changing world. And you're right, Andreas, that's the very, very difficult, I'm certified financial planner, a very difficult conversation to have and people don't wanna have it. And, and with my wife's mother's estate, it got, it used to be that if you had so much of an estate, you could pass as much to your heirs as, as much to your spouse, no problem.

But then above that, a certain amount got taxed. So the trick was keeping the estate down to this certain level. And the way you did that was through gift. . Well, it's difficult to say to somebody, here's what you need to do. You go, you have too much money. So every year you need to write a check for $20,000 to each of your kids to gift that money.

That's a hard conversation, even though it makes sense. 

[00:22:40] Anna Maria Kowalik: And then Saul, you'd better make sure that you don't get sick or need it within the next five years because there's that look back period where you are, you know, you, uh, you're ticked for, uh, for that amount of, uh, whatever you gave away. And so it's, it's a tricky business, let me tell you.

And I, I would love to have that. chatbot, uh, possibility right now to help me navigate all of this because it's really kind of crazy 

[00:23:14] Chris Able: that preparation and that, you know, being prepared and even, even when you go back, I know we're talking more the health insurance side, even the life insurance side would've never some, you know, not getting, you know, too far into, but, you know, met got medical history that doesn't allow life insurance.

Mm-hmm. , and I got a young one, so I would've never thought about this when someone's like, dude, do you have a life insurance policy for her? And I'm like, whoa, whoa, that's a little, and then I thought about it a little bit. I'm like, whoa, that makes all the sense in the world. So they're not in my shoes. God forbid something happens later on down the road because I'm in a sit, you know, a situation where I'm like, oh, can't, that legacy is not there unless I earn it.

Um, it's, it's, it is that. Preparation that, you know, it, it's, it's, I know we're kind of going in different directions, but it's a great conversation in, in its own right as well. 

[00:24:08] Andreas Senie: So well li life planning and, and preparing for the future and passing wealth. I mean, real estate has always been the best vehicle.

The past generational wealth, leverage, appreciation, your annual returns, some liquidity. Right now, the owners are feeling pretty, uh, tighten their waste spends so that cash may not readily be available, but I, outside of a life insurance policy and term, like an otherwise, um, cata catastrophe funds, commercial real estate is, is the way to prepare for that.

Mm-hmm. , I, I don't see a better way. 

[00:24:46] Darren Hayes: Yeah, I, I I would just, you know, I, I think that, uh, AI is kinda the next wave because what, what I mean by that is we've been developing so much data and collecting so much data and. Making any sense of all this data we've been collecting has been the problem, but a lot of healthcare, more progressive healthcare, well funded healthcare organizations have been using that.

So they've been taking data from all your electronic healthcare records, but no longer will a doctor have to go through and page by page, and it doesn't matter if you're moving from to a different doctor or, or you get a doctor, different doctor every time you speak. Doctors are now using this to say, you know, is there any problem with me prescribing this medication based on, you know, this person's medical history or getting suggestions from these electronic healthcare records about what symptoms for this person could mean based on their medical history and their family's medical history.

So, you know, from what I've heard from, from some of, um, these, these doctors, is that they've been getting a lot more information. quicker based on all of the electronic health care records that they have access to and can profile an individual and, you know, all get all their blood test information and make better decisions going forward.

[00:26:09] Andreas Senie: Mm-hmm. , as soon as the AI can tell me that I can spend less, or that I don't need to spend on that insurance, that would be fantastic. . It's another one of those unknown. Um, and, and who knows? 

[00:26:22] Darren Hayes: It's how, how you, your, uh, teenage daughter to agree with you.

Seven year old daughter 

[00:26:37] Chris Able: Best is yet to come, I guess. 

[00:26:39] Darren Hayes: Oh, 

[00:26:39] Andreas Senie: boy. Well, and the, you know, this, the discussion on AI is everywhere. I couldn't agree. It's not a replacement for us by any means, but you know, I see where it's helping identify things and reduce costs and, and accelerate and it's, it's been very exciting to be in so many chat rooms and, and so many meetings with people who wouldn't even sign on to a CRM system now, want to use chat g, PT and otherwise.

Um, so it's just very interesting here in Northeast at least, and not for nothing. How that affects the office market, how and when or if that AI can tell us how to repurpose those markets. I mean, there were some really cool tech that was growing deep blocks than others. Uh, MIT had some, uh, planning and zoning technology where they could virtualize the city and move those deeper density plans around to see how it would affect traffic and how it would affect energy consumption to sea base.

And well, let's talk hospitals, transportation to hospitals. How far and wide do you have to go? So it's, it's really a wide open space. Uh, for the next year, two years. We need a new back to the future motive so we can see, well, in fact, 

[00:27:58] Anna Maria Kowalik: even in the C pace, uh, area, for example, you mentioned specifically, uh, we actually, um, are seeing more and more, uh, energy efficiency audit tools, uh, to help, uh, make those calculations and projections of savings.

And, um, and, uh, here in, um, uh, Illinois, you know, there, there are some utility free programs that are available to, uh, both residential and commercial property owners, uh, for their assistance. And then there are, um, , uh, other, uh, kinds of programs out there that are specific to, uh, what C PACE requires, uh, on, you know, on the various state levels because everybody's, uh, statutes are a little bit different.

And, and so there could be different restrictions or qualifications. So, 

[00:28:52] Saul Klein: um, you know, I, I saw, um, someone introduced me to a, uh, a company just last week that actually does this for municipalities to help them with sustainability so that they become eligible for more federal funds. There you go. Yep. Yes. 

[00:29:12] Chris Able: So, piece of legislation in Connecticut, uh, strategically set up for, basically saw what you were just saying for the schools, any of the schools being built, they need to go by these specific standards.

And it's been this big, uh, big talk at the, the capital in Hartford for the past, say past couple weeks. to get that. Uh, so you can get the grant money, but you have to do X, y, and Z in order to get that and you have to basically make it as sustainable as possible in regards to energy conservation. 

[00:29:44] Darren Hayes: Well, 

[00:29:44] Bekah Carlson: and medical uses are the, are huge energy consumers.

So we have an office building in one of the suburbs that I represent and that we have seen energy costs go up two, $3 a square foot in the past two years since taking in a couple of medical office tenants. 

[00:30:03] Anna Maria Kowalik: So they need solar or something to help them along. And you can send them my way back . 

[00:30:10] Bekah Carlson: Well, interestingly enough, and I, I don't remember if I talked about this last time, but the municipality doesn't, was very disappointed in the energy efficiency of the building because they, um, sell electricity and they weren't making any money on the buildings.

So it's actually completely opposite of how it should be. It should be that we're all trying to make this. Planet better. But instead the municipality was looking at like, no, you've got an energy star certified building. This is terrible. We can't sell you any electricity, we can't make any money off of you.

Just mind boggling. So antiquated at best. 

[00:30:45] Andreas Senie: So, uh, it sounds like everyone here, outside of, let me ask this outside of chat, G P t, in discussions around it, are any of your clients using ai, some tool or AI related research to assist them in their decision making, business wise, planning, construction, um, future proofing their lives, the carwash, any of it?

Yes. I mentioned we're 

[00:31:12] Saul Klein: working with, we were working with a couple of different companies where that's exactly the case, sir. Using it to the best of their ability, integrating to be able to help them in the decision making price. Still the human being has to make the decision, but these, we're looking at this, these as tools.

and, and as Darren said, to bring together more information to be able to crunch more data more effectively and efficiently to come up with something that you could utilize to help you make a better decision. 

[00:31:39] Andreas Senie: Mm-hmm. . So as that independent party, you're, you're, that's you, that's what your clients or people you're talking with are using it for here, here's your independent come to Jesus boat, so to speak.

Um, how about you? Back on the marketing side, I'm gonna work my white counterclockwise this time, . 

[00:31:57] Bekah Carlson: I see a lot of people interested in ai, just not entirely sure how to use it, especially in the marketing piece. The reality is so much of what we do in marketing, whether we like it or not, is subjective. So unless you're getting a fo doing something consumer facing, consumer facing with a big focus group where you're establishing a brand that a lot of consumers, you know, are paying attention to, most of our clients are on the B2B end and what ends up being a look and feel and brand of a company, for instance, is what somebody is, what the CEO likes.

That's a, that's why I have a green logo. It's got a C and an i cause I liked green that day and made it, um, . But you know, there's more of a process for clients, but we are seeing, we're seeing some neat opportunities to look for, to, to utilize it some in similar ways to what you were talking about Andreas, as far as research tools, but we are, we are really fledgling in that.

So I can't speak to a solid experience in doing 

[00:32:56] Andreas Senie: that. I, I always stay away from marketing discussions because it's all opinion based, but it's, you know, having to come to Jesus independent voice in the room that says, Hey, this is why this would be better. Seems like a win marketing, that's just not your cents on it.

Um, I got, and you know, I hesitate to go to Darren here because if the AI starts to tell me what website I can go to and where I what now? Darren on your side or is, is AI. A tool that's being deployed above the threat detection, just in the day-to-day consulting, how to build a network, how to, uh, treat your employees, train your employees, what are you seeing?

[00:33:37] Darren Hayes: Yeah, yeah. It, it, it definitely, it definitely has been used, um, because companies, you know, are basically hit with millions. You know, you make, it's not unusual to have a million attacks on your website a day. And so you do, you can't, you know, all of those, uh, attacks you can't deal with. And so you do need AI to be able to detect the really big problems, um, and identify quickly using threats that other organizations have encountered and used that learning from previous breaches and previous ransomware attacks to look at for those part.

Invaders have compromised that other companies have identified. And so that's been the big problem is, and even false positives have been a big problem for companies is, you know, thinking something as a threat when it's not. And so we're having a lot of, more of this automation. The other thing that's, that's gonna be helpful as well is it can remove some of the social engineers by, you know, we're very often very easy to manipulate.

If you know what you're doing. It's, it's not that difficult. Um, but you know, When you use artificial intelligence and machine learning, you can take away that emotional element that we're sometimes prey to and, uh, and have those systems make some decisions for us. So although AI is used to help us make decisions, it's already been used in the security world, um, to make those automation decisions for us because we don't have the security staff that we need.

And there are just simply too many, uh, attacks on companies these days and their networks, um, for humans to address all of those. 

[00:35:30] Andreas Senie: It's, um, you just sparked an idea on in speaking of networks is the not in my backyard or nimby, right? What if, what if the town came in with that independent voice, that AI that said, no, this is the way we're gonna redistrict everything.

and it makes sense and there's no politics anymore. But before I talk politics and nimby . Yeah. The, 

[00:35:55] Chris Able: the, um, the, there's a couple things. One of 'em you just, you just made me think about. They brought up, um, recently in a local, local town council meeting when they were trying to do some development, uh, behind a local school.

Uh, one of the, um, people from the town brought up that whole AI concept and, and brought up a couple ideas in regards to, you know, how much it would cost to get the site work and the wetlands committee. And it just basically Dr it drummed up a bunch of enough dust to have the developer actually, uh, uh, take out their, basically their application to develop for the time being until they could kind of find their own team, um, in their own firm, I'm assuming, to buy themselves some time to kind of, you know, get.

Produce a counter to the, to the citizens that were basically saying, Hey, if we do this, you know, my, my information shows X, Y, and Z is going to happen. And it put everyone on, on tilt because the majority of the room had no, including myself, quite frankly, had no idea what what was actually being shown.

But the developer obviously saw some real validity to it, to the point where he said, all right, you know, let me go back to the drawing board and I'm gonna have to find a new way around this. But that's one thing that, you know, the not in my backyard thing sparked that thought. But as far as construction goes, I know there's a lot going on, but recently the biggest thing that I've run into, and I don't have a ton of information, Is one of the, uh, largest tool manufacturers in the construction industry.

Um, I don't wanna throw the name out there, but they are really utilizing AI to figure out kind of their every tool line that is coming out, which they come out with stuff all the time. They have a whole team that is actually digging into artificial intelligence to kind of refigure out how reconfigure, how they're gonna do certain tools if they're using too much energy.

Um, meaning like, is there too something as simple as using too much force to, you know, nail something or drop. I'm using a simple example, but you get the idea like, are they, is it using too much battery? You know, can we make our batteries last long? Or all these things now? The people that I deal with are the people who are selling these tools.

So they're kind of like, listen, I let them do their work on the back end and then when they tell me that these things are ready, they release 'em and then I go out and they train me and then I'll teach them and all that sort of stuff. But they did line me up. I have a call next week with, um, with that company and with one of the agents from, um, their whole kind of AI kind of task force they put together.

And he's gonna explain to me some of the, uh, examples and things like that. So hopefully I'll be able to report back, uh, next month on some of this stuff. Um, I'm excited about it cuz it's, it's interesting how many of us had, have had a tool at one time or another that I like God, it's a little bit of overkill for my job.

And no Bigger's always better. Well that's the thing. That's the other thing. But a lot of those end up putting, you know, depending on what you're using. , you know, it might be an energy issue, it might be an emissions issue. It might, so it's interesting. It's all interesting stuff. I think it's certainly tip of the iceberg when it comes to construction, though, certainly just the beginning when it comes to construction, because it's, it's inevitable.

It's inevitable. People are trying to figure out any and every way to save money and be more productive, especially in the net zero building side of things. AI's gonna be 

[00:39:24] Andreas Senie: vital. Well, and I keep thinking back to that independent voice of reason, although that scares the crap outta me. When you consider laying off employees or reducing, uh, footprint for real estate, you know that, that tough conversation.

Here's the AI to say, well, if you do this, this is why it makes sense, assuming you trust it. And, you know, the world doesn't trust its institutions today, let alone, uh, an ai. But baby, I mean, in my mind it's gonna start on at , right On the green side. Cause that's the, the most clever technology that would take the, that would improve the bottom line the most if it, if I know exactly how and when to turn my batteries on and off, how to sell it back, when to sell it back.

Mm-hmm. , I'm it down. I'm thinking of my Nest thermostat. It lowered my energy both considerably. They're still skyrocketing, but it did, it did assist there. And then how that grows solar panels, solar matters cars and such. Well, Andrea, 

[00:40:21] Saul Klein: you made an interesting point about, um, in San Diego we have a, a combined governments called Sandag of all of the city's and municipalities within the county.

Mm-hmm. and Sandag has come out with a transportation plan. And included in that plan is a mileage tax where everybody is taxed for the miles they drive. Now the first argument was we've figured all of this out and the computers have told us, and you can't argue with the science. This was the pitch by the government.

And so now you see if a consumer advocacy group wants to argue with the government that's utilizing these tools, the consumer advo advocacy groups have to have the same kinds of tools to say, yeah, but our science contradicts your science. Otherwise, how do you argue with the science? So we've got that debate right here in San Diego County over this mileage tax.

It's like, well, who really gets hurt? If you got a lot of money and they throw an extra 5 cents a ga, uh, 5 cents a mile, you know what? You can pay it. But if you're the poor person who's, who's commuting back and forth to work, that's really gonna an impact on you. And then that might force you Public transfers like a lot of aspects to this, that the, the, uh, AI can, can.

can deal with, but then which AI do you believe? And so if you're gonna advocate for the other side, you need to have the same types of 

[00:41:54] Andreas Senie: tools. So, so it's not, it's not leveling the playing field at all. It's just a layer of complexity and it's a problem. It's something to overcome it sounds like, around the room in most cases.

[00:42:09] Darren Hayes: Yeah. I, I, I think, I think we also have to think about, um, what we call geoint, uh, which is geographic intelligence. Because with the proliferation of drones and access to live satellite technology, we, people are using that information to make a lot more decisions. People can count the number of trucks entering and exiting a particular plant to determine if that com how well that company is doing in terms of, of manufacturing and exports, if they're, or if they're determining if there's a problem.

With their supply line. You know, they, we've been talk about, you know, hedge fund companies may be using this type of technology. Uh, a lot of people don't realize that, you know, as an individual you can pay quite a bit of money, but you can pay for real life satellite seeds. So if you, for example, you wanna know how many people are charging their electric vehicles at a particular stop.

You can get that kind of intelligence these days and you can determine whether you want to open a business in a particular place based on the number of cars. We also have, you know, there are companies that's a lot of information related to, um, advertising id. So when we enable location services with the apps that we're using, , that information is collected and you can see how many people are in a particular area at one time.

So, you know, that's, that's one other element apart from just doing searches with chat G P T that a lot of people don't realize. I mean, for example, there was a Harvard study where they showed that, you know, the, the coronavirus began months before, you know, China said it happened based on the number of cars that were parked in the parking lot at that hospital in Wuhan.

And so they, they said there was a huge increase in the number of cars few months before they came out and said, you know, we have a problem with, with this new coronavirus. So, so this is being used a lot by different companies in decision making. Well, 

[00:44:11] Bekah Carlson: and I see in retail like Andreas, right, like all of the, you know, there's a handful of technologies and I actually had a client that just canceled one of them.

uh, they've been, they've been subscribers for over a year and it's supposed to provide all of that vehicular data of people who are in certain places in proximity for site selection, right? For, for retail tenants, interestingly enough, the data that they were collecting would only kick in if somebody was there for seven minutes, which is great unless you represent a bunch of drive-throughs because most people aren't there for seven minutes at a drive through and you're not getting that actual data.

And if you're getting historic data that maybe is a month old versus real time. So they found that their boots on the ground approach of actually knowing the intersections in their community and knowing exactly the traffic patterns because they've lived there their entire lives, they found it to be actually far more effective than utilizing these data pieces.

But part of it's cuz it wasn't real time and there's such, uh, there's some latency in the data and as. technology opportunities grow. I'm sure that, that, that immediate data is available. It's just how much are they going to charge people? So this client was paying like $24,000 a year. They were not paying, this was not an inexpensive software or application to have.

And they were like, I mean, it doesn't even tell us if people are in the drive-through, like how are we gonna represen. , xyz, amazing retailer co, you know, restaurant coming to, to their marketplace when they couldn't even tell them how long people were at various places 

[00:45:49] Anna Maria Kowalik: utilizing, well, they must have had some of the wrong, uh, uh, programming because, um, when I was in the property management asset management industry before coming to Green Finance, um, there were, uh, those geo type programs that, uh, the minute I would walk into the store and I would test them out myself, uh, for my, uh, my tenants and, uh, you'd get a coupon from that store immediately.

Or they would send you an email, you know, with their sales, um, uh, information, you know, what's on sale this week and, and, and all that kind of thing. So was that, that was immediate. 

[00:46:33] Bekah Carlson: To a subscription or tied to a relationship, like a preexisting relationship with that store versus global data of consumers who are, you know, where you're pulling pinging cell phone data?

[00:46:43] Anna Maria Kowalik: Well, I didn't have to, I didn't have to download anything to be a part of it. Uh, it, they just because I had an iPhone and I was in close proximity, uh, it, it would just start bombarding me and, yeah, go ahead. You know, so there are all types of programs out there and, and we're talking, this is already, I, I've, I've been here five years, so we're talking seven, eight years ago that immediate technology was available.

So, 

[00:47:16] Bekah Carlson: has privacy changed 

[00:47:17] Andreas Senie: that Darren? 

[00:47:20] Darren Hayes: Uh, well, there there's a lot of questions about this. I mean, like, for example, speaking to somebody from the uk there's, there's a lot of restrictions on open source information and what you can do with that, especially in law enforcement, for example. And they don't have those restrictions here.

And I think it's, it, it's a big conversation, you know, um, you know, the security in Exchange Commission have been quite open in saying that they're, they're very worried about artificial intelligence and machine learning, um, being able special access, better information on, on what stocks to trade. And so, you know, even, even a, a split second, you know, makes a difference in a, in a trade.

And so that, that is a concern. And they're looking at a lot of these upcoming AI companies and, and how they could give. People with, with money and more resources and advantage over, over individuals in marketplaces. 

[00:48:20] Andreas Senie: Well, and, and that you hit it on the head, it's competitive advantage through the use of the latest technology.

Uh, Anna Maria Beacons, um, Bluetooth beacons were beaming that data to you when you walked in. Satellites are counting cars, you know, the strips on the, on the road, the wire that literally counted the car. I mean, these are, these are all things that, depending on what time and what place and what budget have been deployed, to learn things to get that nuanced understanding of a market.

And, you know, as real estate professionals, we live and breathe. We live and die based on that birth, rebirth, and, and growth cycle for any given area. So while be of the company brought up seven minute window and uh, could be adjusted, maybe, maybe not. I know who you're speaking on. There's so many other data points you have to factor in and that's that nuanced in that intuition even that's all kind of touched on that technology and AI doesn't have yet.

Um, for instance, just here 10 years, I've been watching 'em change a traffic light to a stop sign to two traffic lights to a circle. They can't figure it out. for us, you know, the school, there's a private school, there's development, there's been a lot of changes in the area, not to mention the influx of new residents.

Um, and the local developer here, uh, local owners actually let his centers, uh, the vacancy rise in his centers cause he wants to tear them down. So there's so much nuance that. AI can't account for, cuz it, it can't get to A, B, C, D. It might see a, it might see C and d, but it can't pick up the pieces. At least I haven't seen it.

Pick up the pieces and take that information and turn it into insights like each of us would. That's my too cents low, low, uh, low, uh, Bluetooth emissions. It's been a long time since anything's been beamed to my phone. I remember this we're at six 50. I cannot believe how quickly this hour's going by. As, as we move through here in Bluetooth, AI technology of speaking of latest tech and competitive advantage, what's the best next thing anyone could be using in your respective sectors for the next 30 days?

Anna Maria, I know on Steve Pace and, and loans, is it. What tool is out there? What should people be doing? Uh, you know what? Right now what you use, is it the telephone? ? 

[00:51:11] Anna Maria Kowalik: Yes. Believe it or not, the old-fashioned telephone, just picking it up and talking to people, uh, it, it, it's amazing, uh, how much you get done.

Uh, so, uh, you know, I, I use a lot of texting as well. Uh, you know, sometimes it's easier for a client to ask a quick question before they run into a meeting, you know, and they like to text me, oh, am I, uh, thinking about this right? Or, you know, uh, what other information can you give me? Um, you know, email still works.

Um, uh, perhaps unlike most of the others, you know, who showed how, you know, they're seeing, uh, chat bots or, you know, ai, uh, figuring in. I really, except for the things that you were talking about earlier, you know, uh, perhaps, um, assessing some of those efficiencies and, uh, you know, and, and, uh, what some of those projections could be.

And, and what I was talking about, about some of the new energy as assessment tools, which absolutely in my industry, they're beginning to pick up on more, but I haven't seen any real applications that clients are using or that, um, you know, we are doing any differently as a result of, um, you know, that new technology.

[00:52:39] Andreas Senie: So the batteries are improving, the solar panels look nicer. Hopefully . But otherwise, the bus being in the business of financing green. is, is traditional. You're out there, it's relationships, and you're growing on the phone. I love the phone. 

[00:52:55] Anna Maria Kowalik: It's traditional, but innovative too because, you know, it's, it's still, uh, the green world and, and, you know, it's still being accepted, uh, more openly.

It's still, uh, in its infancy, in, in what it can do when the impact it can have. 

[00:53:14] Andreas Senie: And still in person at events, networking is king. 

[00:53:18] Anna Maria Kowalik: Absolutely. Oh, uh, Becca and I have been at, at least three or four together, uh, since the beginning of the year, . So, uh, we'll both attest to that, I'm sure. 

[00:53:29] Andreas Senie: And Chris, uh, how about on your end, what's the, what's the latest, greatest, or best tool that people should be paying attention to?

As, 

[00:53:39] Chris Able: I mean, as far as construction, I mean, there's new technology coming. Every single day, you know, even at ebc, at the national level, has this tech marketplace that, I swear it seems like every week, every week or two, someone, another company's joining this tech marketplace. Um, but I would say the most consistent.

But a lot of those contractors are trying to figure out, okay, what, what talks to, what, what do I already have? Um, , all that sort of stuff. So I would say the most consistent thing right now, and the thing that's growing, um, now is just, um, Darren mentioned earlier, the drone technology is just huge. Mm-hmm.

um, more people are hiring a, if they don't have it already, they're bringing on a drone operator, licensed drone pilot, um, on their staff. Or they're putting someone on contracts so they can get them out to their job either to show the finished product, to show the process, or in a lot of cases, to, um, get it ready for the site work side of things.

Um, you know, it's saving them a lot of the money. Uh, you don't see as many surveyors out there as much. Um, Or you don't see them out as quickly as you may see a drone up there right away, to kind of get an idea of what they're dealing with before they put a se, a survey team out there. So drones are actually, you know, it's not new, but I'm seeing more contractors seeing it as like, if I don't have drone footage, I'm falling behind.

So now they're grabbing someone and it seems to be something that they can get, they can understand it a little while. It's a flyover, here it is. Some of the technology and the, the AI based stuff, they're just, a lot of 'em just aren't there yet. They're just trying to, to build. And, um, you know, as far as I go, uh, Anna Maria and, uh, Becca, I mean, same thing.

Conversation is king. I gotta be out there getting, getting as much information. That's the way I could ping one, one person to the next person. I've been out there for all sorts of events. Um, Unfortunately, uh, wish we had Anna Marie and Becca come out. We have International Women's Day next Wednesday and we have the ct A, B, C, women in Construction Breakfast.

Mm-hmm. So we have over a hundred women from the construction industry coming out. Um, you could have a mimosa and some chocolates on your own that morning, but , 

[00:55:45] Anna Maria Kowalik: well actually I'm gonna be at an event that evening. All right. There you go. Uh, sponsored by Women in Commercial Real Estate, so there you go.

[00:55:54] Chris Able: Absolutely. Yeah, so it's awesome. But I would say drones on that end and then on my end as far as business development, it's still that conference conversation information. 

[00:56:03] Andreas Senie: Excellent. Uh, drones are everywhere. I couldn't agree more on that point. I see him more often than not. Although it's a, um, it's an interesting area cause I think back to a restaurant owner I represented and he had his cameras, not a drone, but then he also wired it into the cash register drawer.

So whatever he wanted to let his employees know he was watching, he would open the drawer behind them. So I, it's so a little bit, a little big brother for me, but the drone technology is something that's, that's certainly gonna continue to grow. Um, I read recently the hard hat sensors telling you when you set foot on the job.

Those are, those are pretty, um, pretty revolutionary. You know, what's, what floor are you on? How long have you been there? All of it. You could stick stick 

[00:56:53] Anna Maria Kowalik: those. Well, I remember even with, uh, security, you know, we had security staff at some of our shopping centers when I was in property management. And so as they passed by their security stations, you know, they have to swipe the wand or whatever.

And, uh, so you know where they are at all times and, and you get a report afterwards. So Absolutely. Well, 

[00:57:13] Andreas Senie: we're all tracked all the time. I don't think anyone will deny that on this call. Um, how about on your end? 

[00:57:23] Bekah Carlson: I would say people. 

[00:57:25] Andreas Senie: Getting people, people 

[00:57:27] Bekah Carlson: staying, staying competitive by staying around the pe, the people who are not standing still, people who are growing, surrounding yourself with people who are learning and advancing and developing skills.

I'm curious. I'm I'm being on this call, I am now inspired to go out and play more with chat gc Right. For, cause I was kinda ignoring it. I've been really busy lately and I'm like, wow, I need to up my skills. I need to have the stories to tell just like my co participants on this round table. But that's right.

We all need each other to also help us grow and stretch and get better at what we're doing. 

[00:58:03] Andreas Senie: Absolutely. Um, chat, G b t are, are, uh, the assistant behind the, the professional maybe. We'll see. We'll see. But people, people are paramount. Good people with great ideas. That's why I love having you guys on the show and, uh, having this circle of, of cohosts and mentors in your respective areas.

Because you're, you know, I don't care how, how often or how smart that AI gets, it's not gonna be as smart as the people in this room. It's my humble opinion. Um, Darren, on the, maybe not, maybe on the cybersecurity side it might be smarter cause it can type, but you tell me, what's the latest, uh, cybersecurity tool or trend that people should be paying attention to?

[00:58:49] Darren Hayes: Uh, well a couple of things. First of all, um, the new proposed SCC regulation whereby companies will now have to really think hard about having people on their board who are cybersecurity smart and, and can review cybersecurity plans and policies. Um, I, you know, just to end on, on the AI thing, you know, just be careful how you use it because.

You know, it can be used against you when you're asking questions, uh, that will help your organization. You're giving information away about your company, and sometimes that means some of the vulnerabilities and difficulties that you're dealing with. And I, I think I may have mentioned, I'm not sure about Amazon and, and how people are asking Alexa for, for questions that might be asked as an Amazon interview.

And they were actually getting questions that would come up in an interview and Amazon actually found that, um, employees and human resources were actually using Alexa to think up questions for interviewees. So you've gotta think about that kind of thing as well, that by using it, you're also contributing to this database of 

[00:59:59] Andreas Senie: information.

Now you said there's that tech saying that if you're, if the product is free, you are the product. Um, but that's an interesting thought. As we go out there and our clients look to the internet to answer questions about their assets, about their investment strategy. Um, does that get resold and bundled?

Does that then go to, into a system that gets to a broker and says, Hey, Soandso was asking, um, what to do with this asset? I don't know. Um, I need to just get in the carwash business. Although, to be fair, uh, I talk about Saul's carwash a lot. That's the carwash that could, it has been through every cycle of development from a major city, and it has been part of rebates and programs and opportunity zones and.

You know, you tell me, what is the one thing people could be doing before technology takes over? Just kidding. We know it's not taking over. People are in charge. 

[01:01:01] Saul Klein: I, I would just say that, um, we're on the cusp of a paradigm shift and as Thomas Kon would say, and so with all of the conversations that we see people having about technology and about chat, G p T and about AI and about, uh, machine learning, a lot of people have a tendency to be afraid and therefore they won't try.

And if you want to get ahead, if you want to differentiate yourself from the competition, you ought to be trying some of this. And I would say to people that there's this period of time between, uh, the discovery of something and mass awareness and the p, that period of time between discovery and mass awareness is called lag.

And lag is where opportunity resides. And so right now, not takeover. If you can figure out ways for some of these new things in a small way to integrate into things you're already doing, you'll be way ahead of your competition. 

[01:02:08] Andreas Senie: Couldn't agree more. I mean, it's as simple as the, the example I gave earlier here was office leader looking to recruit and he's manually putting together spreadsheets of all these agents, their production and office and so forth.

And he integrated chat PT into that workflow, into that excel so it could figure it out and give him a short, it was a simple, small change that that freed him up for hours and hours to come. And God only knows what he's gonna come out next, but I'm sure it's gonna help his business cause he's using it in a way that he can coach it.

Uh, let's say this, my opinion, it's, it's an exciting time to be in real estate. You know, it's opportunistic. Plenty of excitement here on this call. It's 7 0 3. We've run over. Guys. I wanna thank each of you for joining the call for being a host, co-host on this call The Sector Interviews. This show continues to grow.

Just last month, we hit 2000 downloads on an episode. It's fantastic. Tune in every month. I, I wanna thank our audience first and foremost, but tune in any, every month, anywhere you get your audio or your video. Alexa devices. Ask your AI as well as, uh, reach out to us on social. We look forward to seeing you next.