Roundtable: Technology, Marketing, Brokerage, Government Policy, Capital, Construction & Cyber Security in Real Estate with Andreas Senie


July 22, 2022 Andreas Senie Roundtable: Technology, Marketing, Brokerage, Government Policy, Capital, Construction & Cyber Security in Real Estate with Andreas Senie
Show Notes Transcript

Join Andreas Senie and special guest Art Rendak of Inland Mortgage Capital for Industry Sector Expert Interview as they discuss the financial services sector for Commercial Real Estate, debt loan programs, and transitional/bridge lending affecting the Real Estate Industry on July 21th at 6PM EST.

- Andreas Senie, Host, Founder CRECollaborative (, Technology Growth Strategist, CRETech Thought Leader, & Brokerage Owner

- Art Rendak, President at Inland Mortgage Capital, LLC a member of the Inland Group of Companies Inc. 

Sector Interviews are bonus episodes of Real Estate Roundtable - Your comprehensive all-in-one view of what's happening across the real estate industry -- straight from some of the industry's earliest technology adopters and foremost experts.


Your all in one comprehensive view of what is happening across the real estate industry -- straight from some of the industry's earliest technology adopters and foremost experts in Technology, Marketing, Capital, Construction & Cyber Security in Real Estate 

Join us live at 6 PM EST on the 1st Thursday of each month, across all major social media channels and wherever you get your podcasts. 

This three-part show consists of:

Part I: Introductions and what's new for each panelist and the business sector

Part II: Sector Focus on the past month's most prominent news and paradigm shifts

Part III: What does all this mean for real estate businesses, and what you can do for the next 30 days

Learn more at

#datadrivenbusiness #businessmanagement #commercialrealestate #crecollaborator #CRE #CommercialFinance #RealEstate #cpace#CommercialRealEstate #Financing 

[00:00:00] Andreas Senie: Welcome back for this special episode of the Real Estate Round Table Sector interview with Art Rendak. The Real Estate Roundtable is your all in one comprehensive view of what's happening in the real estate industry, straight from some of the industry's earliest technology adopters to foremost experts.

I'm Andreas Senie Founder, CRE Collaborative, brokerage owner, and technology growth expert. Joining me this month is non other than Art Rendak. President Inland Mortgage Capital, LLC, a member of the inland Real Estate Group of Companies. 

Art. So great to have you here. So many questions we're gonna get into 'em do interrupt me on your background if I, if I misstep it, but I'm gonna give it my best shot.

Art has been in real estate finance. Wow. 20 years now, at least first in. Various banks in Virginia, and then with inland, for since 2000, handling everything from underwriting to building loan portfolios, to creating the first pace program in 2015, 2017, having navigated the last great financial crisis wherein you actually established inland inland mortgage capital.

making it one of the most reliable, small, balanced debt funds in the us suffice to say, I consider you a foremost expert in lending as we head into this economic downturn. 

[00:01:42] Art Rendak: Well, thanks for having me. I it's been actually longer than 20 years. It's been like 30 32. I think if you wanna really, uh, count my first day at the bank.

But, um, uh, before that I was a, I was an accountant, I guess. So I'm a reformed, uh, reformed account. CPA. And, uh, I was working for a finance company a long, long time ago. And, uh, I decided that I, I rather, uh, get the checks than sign the checks. So, uh, I, I moved from accounting to finance and, uh, you know, uh, the rest is sort of history.

It's a, it was a, a crazy story how I got in the business, but, um, uh, at least on the real estate side, I was on the sort of the commercial, uh, M and a financing side. When I first started. um, just got a really lucky break to get into real estate and it's thank thankfully it happened, cuz I love, I love what I do and, and, uh, love real.


[00:02:37] Andreas Senie: and, and you love inland clearly. I love inland. 

[00:02:40] Art Rendak: Yeah. 22 years here. Uh, yeah, it's been, uh, two crisis, I think on which isn't too bad in, in, uh, in real estate. Uh, I don't know. Yeah, the pandemic, I would definitely describe as a crisis and, and hopefully we're not gonna enter into a third one here, I guess we'll probably talk a little bit about what's going on in the future.


[00:02:56] Andreas Senie: absolutely. Well, real estate, as you know, it's a cyclical business. We have our ops, our downs. 

[00:03:02] Art Rendak: Yeah. I think this navigate, endorse it. Go ahead. My fourth, uh, You know, depending on how you define some of 'em. I think, uh, the, uh, dot com bubble was sort of, it definitely affected office. Um, and then the early nineties, when I first started, I was a workout guy and that was, uh, the savings alone crisis, I guess.

So, um, if you had savings bubble the, uh, great financial crisis and now, and the pandemic, I guess that's, I count that as. Huh? Well, but that's a lot of good years in between than at 30 some years, so 

[00:03:36] Andreas Senie: well, and that's right. And it's a lot of lessons learned. I imagine, you know, going from high leverage to, to what, what you focus on now, which I understand is bridge loan programs three to 15 million nonrecourse.


[00:03:47] Art Rendak: Is, is that yeah. Three to 15, a little higher sometimes, you know, not much lower than three. It just, it sort of doesn't make sense at that level, but nationwide, uh, all property types, more or less. Yeah, we're, uh, we're, we're excited about where we are in the space today. Um, just like the cycles and, and, uh, we've seen in the, in the macro levels, um, sort of, you know, it's, it's, it's a little, it's nicer to be lending in a market where other people are sort of sitting on the sidelines and I've always, I've always enjoyed these kind of times when, uh, When I have capital to deploy and other people seem to not have it.

So it's good. 

[00:04:29] Andreas Senie: Absolutely. I, I had got my brokerage license in 2007, so I cut my teeth in real estate during a crisis, which was great. Cuz the, there wasn't any riff WRA, so to speak there wasn't this, this plethora of options or people trying to do things. There were serious deal makers out there working deals, doing deals.

So you said something interesting there, you said, uh, you have capital others. Don't. So Inland's obviously out there buying, developing lending. You're busy. What are you doing or what's changed in your outlook over the last six months as we head into 

[00:05:03] Art Rendak: this shift? Well, yeah, I think, um, you know, for us, we were still, uh, sort of re re recover.

I wouldn't say recovering, but, um, just sort of evaluating what we wanted to do coming out of the pandemic. Um, we've definitely slowed down the last couple years and, uh, So was, as thing is, you know, we restructured the kind of debt we wanted to, to have where most people in the debt fund business use warehouse lines and other, we don't have bank depositors to, uh, help us as, you know, uh, provide capital to put out to, to, to our borrowers.

But, um, so we just sort of restructured everything after the pandemic looked at things a little differently. Um, uh, the pandemic, we, we, you know, like most people I think were fortunate that, uh, luckily we made good loans, pre pandemic and they, they survived. And, um, so we'll have a, you know, a perfect track record of, of, of that portfolio.

And, uh, now the job is to we've already started, but the job is to, you know, replicate that again. And luckily for us, as we've had a ton of payoffs from the legacy portfolio, Um, we have a lot of capital to deploy. Uh, so, you know, and, and going to your, your question, Andrea it's, um, clearly, you know, if anybody's read the headlines knows that lenders are, are a little, I, I wouldn't say, you know, frozen, like the great financial crisis, but I think I want maybe a little stagnant.

I don't know if that's the right word, but, um, you know, there's just, there's just uncertainty. Uncertainty is, you know, whether you're a buyer of real estate or an owner, or you're a lender, it's a. It's a challenging time and it's, you know, that doesn't, you know, makes my job even though, yeah. Maybe I don't have as many competitors bidding on the, the same loans, if they're good deals, um, it's still, you know, we've gotta evaluate those deals.

Uh, see if they can survive. You know, what I hope is a short term. Uh, you 

[00:07:05] Andreas Senie: know, so is it, is it fair to say that the lenders are, are letting off the gas in their, in the time to close? Are they really dragging their feet? So to speak as interest rates come up, what do you think's 

[00:07:16] Art Rendak: gonna happen? Well, you know, it's, you know, I, I don't, uh, I don't sit in the seats of a lot of lenders.

I, I mostly it's anecdotal. Um, I was just on a, on a web zoom call this morning and, and, uh, one of the panelists was a, was a major borrower here in Chicago area. And he said that it, you know, all his money center banks told him that it's, they're really, it's only for the best and the brightest are giving, you know, really serious looks.

Uh, but I don't, I don't believe that is, you know, might have been a little bit overstatement, but, um, you know, there's no doubt. I think CMBS is, is a challenge. You know, they, they don't, they don't like volatility more than anybody. They, you know, buy lo they make loans and then they sell them or securitize them.

And, you know, if the price, the price goes, uh, the yield goes up that the, the bond buyers demand, it's not a good time, uh, in the CMBS shop. So, you know, this is not a good time for them, uncertainty of where the rates are going. You know, why do you wanna buy a bond if it, for 10 years, if you think tomorrow, the rate's going to, you know, you can buy one.

50 pips more expensive or, uh, more favorable to you as a buyer. So, um, it's yeah, C E C, which is another securitization product, um, which is in my space. Um, same problem. Uh, you know, don't know how the bonds are gonna price when they get to market. So the pooling of the assets is one thing, but you know, if you're not gonna make money on the securitization, then it's not a, it's not a good, good time.

And. Um, but the good news is I think warehouse lending is, is, is probably is fine. And, uh, the problems that cause sort of a cardiac arrest in the finance world, which we saw in oh 7 0 8 are not there by no means. So, you know, right now it's just, it's just a rising interest of rapidly rising interest rate environment, which is causing, uh, a lot of hiccups in the, uh, in the lending.

[00:09:18] Andreas Senie: Are you seeing an influx in, in origination people trying to get in under the gun as inflation or yeah. You know, there's enough all utility they're pulling 

[00:09:26] Art Rendak: back. I think it's the buyers have capital and they wanna deploy it and they, you know, um, they're, they're still trying to buy assets. I think it's just when they put the levered model together, you know, and I'm dealing with folks who are probably, you know, not gonna buy something with a hundred million I cash and, you know, clip a 5%, you know, cap rate coupon, but.

Um, so I think the folks who are using leverage and their, and their analysis are, you know, just stunned at the widening of spreads and things. So you, you know, you've got negative leverage more often than not I'm I'm in the value ad space. So what, what it means is that the value add is gotta be a much higher than it used to be.

Um, in order to support, uh, what, where the support, you know, where the overall yield is gonna. And, uh, it's only gonna go up, uh, even with interest rate caps and things like that. So it's, it's the, the challenge on my side is not only is winning the business, but you know, again, making sure the borrower can repay and it's all, it's all sensible.

Uh, Underwriting 

[00:10:27] Andreas Senie: it's like, well, and, and you inland this bridge loan program, it's nonrecourse. Yes. No prepayment, no premiums. And you have, as you mentioned, you were the first to have a pace loan program. You created your first pace program. You were there. So in a sense you have the end end financing capability that another bank or lender may not.

So, is that, is that gonna be a big advantage as we head in here, as I understand it from Anna Maria, the C pace loan is only becoming more and more of that value, given the 

[00:10:58] Art Rendak: changes in the, yeah, no, it, um, we weren't the first, I mean, just, uh, we were involved in, in pace at a, in a pretty pretty nascent time.

Uh, when, you know, there was virtually very little sea pace nationwide and, and REI was probably more prevalent. and, uh, you know, we, I, we were excited about the product still are, obviously we have a, a program and, uh, that's, you know, is now pretty much focused on commercial pace, but, um, the exit strategy is, you know, you know, it's, uh, the markets free up, it'll always be challenging.

Um, we all want multi-family cuz you know, the government is a big lender, you know, for the exit and the government has been pretty steady even during times of crisis. Um, in meeting agencies and, uh, so, you know, the most liquid asset class by far is multifamily. Um, and you know, we just, we, uh, we certainly can't, if we're an underwrite to the belief that there's not gonna be any capital to buy an asset at the maturity date, we shouldn't be lending money.

So, you know, we, we we're, uh, we sort of have a, a assumption that there's gonna be some normalcy to the. To the capital market so that, you know, transactions can ebb and flow. And, um, you know, we just have to look at where rates are gonna, you know, using forward curves and things like that. Try to guess where, what the debt service coverage is gonna be two or three years from 

[00:12:27] Andreas Senie: now.

Well, and as you said, you've been through four of these downturns and I'll just say it that way. You helped rewrite manuals at inland policy, reshape groups, underwriting, and so forth. unlike COVID, which was a paradigm shift. No one expected that they didn't know what to do. Right. This part coming outta COVID up down, rates are going up.

This is business as usual, fair to say 

[00:12:52] Art Rendak: haven't been. So, and it's a good thing because, you know, I mean, you're here. If you anybody's been listening and I, they also be listening to your podcast is it's the only one that anybody to be listening to, but. I, I think everybody's been on some web calls about state of the market type things.

We're hearing sort of this, you know, you know, especially if there's an economist on the panel, it's, it's strange. It's, uh, you've got UN you've got unemployment at lowest levels ever. Um, a great jobs report a couple weeks ago. And, uh, and then you've got this inflation problem and. and you've got rates rising and you hear about, you know, credit markets pulling back.

And it's just, it's a very, you know, we obviously there's a war sort of effect. It is affecting, you know, certainly affecting Europe, um, affecting us as well here in the us. But, um, yeah, it's a very strange time and, um, I'm, you know, I'm more optimistic because we're going into this with a lot of good things.

Um, savings rates, very high. Uh, employment very solid. You know, I, I assume there'll be some, some, some re you know, we'll see some, uh, unfortunate layoffs and things, and, uh, you know, probably a tick up on the unemployment rate, but 5% used to be the, used to be the number of full employment. Now we're at 3.8 or whatever it is.

So we've got a 1.2 to go before we get back to the old days. Now, you know, the old days, aren't the old days anymore. 

[00:14:19] Andreas Senie: Absolutely. I mean, look, uh, even your, your points on your mortgage or whatever debt vehicle you're using compared to 2007, breathe on a mirror, pay 18% or, or what have you. Yeah, it's, we're prepared for this.

We've learned a lot of lessons. There are a lot of controls in place. Uh, We talk a lot on, on the monthly show, the Roundtable show about at least recently, these, these labor shortages and other issues. And the question I wanna ask you specific to COVID with these developments, shut down with these large scale developments out there.

Are you seeing an issue with these owners, developers outside of iland is independence. Kind of stalled hard up for money now that they they've been through COVID they, they stopped working. Then they started working. They didn't get those tenants in. They didn't deliver that space on time. You know, loans are gonna mature.

Things are gonna change, especially short term financing, hard money loans. What's your thought there? Is there a, a hesitate to say this for negative connotation? Is there a shadow inventory just waiting from the developer side, these mid-size guys that are building out 

[00:15:26] Art Rendak: couple. Yeah. You know, I think it's a great question.

And I think. That's why you're sitting in the seat. You say that, but, uh, I think, I think it's it's property specific. I mean, I, it, you know, and again, I, the statistics you look at are, are backwards a little bit, you know, not too backward, but maybe the last quarter or whatever, but, you know, multi is, is still multifamily is just roaring.

And, uh, absolutely. If there's a risk, I think in multifamily it's that rents are way out of, of, of cost of living or at least wage increases. Um, you know, I we've all read the same things. Affordability has never been worse. And, uh, you know, the, I think the average house price is 416,000 today. Oh, 

[00:16:10] Andreas Senie: it's with institutional buyers coming in.


[00:16:13] Art Rendak: I think to answer your question, I mean, I think office is really the, if there's a shadow, a shadow, uh, wave of something that I'd be worried about, it's certainly office and, um, I, I, you know, I. Go in the city of Chicago, I'm in the suburbs, but I'm in the city one, you know, frequently. Um, the building that I, that I, we work in, which is we work at a WeWork here, uh, that building is relatively empty every day.

And, uh, I think, you know, the, the, the statistics say like 40, some percent of, of Chicagoans are back in their office, at least in the city. Uh, but rent seems to be paid. There's delinquency in the office. Space is not bad at. Um, CMPs delinquency on office is not where I thought it would be. So people are continue to pay rent.

You know, obviously we have vacancy where space is being sublet. Uh, space is giving, being given back and, and certainly in Chicago, you know, I know that more than the other markets, um, we're seeing this incredible, uh, you know, marketing of, of vacant B buildings. Being, uh, marketed as, as, as multifamily conversion plays.

Um, but I think with all that being said, I think, uh, I'm, I'm, I, I expect to see those office buildings, you know, in the CMPs space and such, I, that gotta believe tenants will stop paying. It just doesn't make economic sense to pay, pay for something you're not using. And, uh, you know, it just, I don't know if they haven't got around to it or at least terms where.

We're just perfectly aligned with, uh, the, you know, the COVID situation. But, um, I'm, I'm shocked. There's not more defaults in the office. So 

[00:17:57] Andreas Senie: office mark, well, and, and defaults are simply opportunities for the next investor, right? Yeah. 

[00:18:03] Art Rendak: Yeah. And, but, you know, again, it's, if you gotta buy it, if you got the right basis and you believe that the office market's going back, um, you know, I think it's a great, it's a great opportunity.

I'm I'm not, I'm not, not looking at. Um, but it's gotta be at the right basis where the rents are, you know, either gonna be below market or something. And, uh, you know, a lot of TIS gonna be budgeted and you're really gonna be able to buy those tenants and fill the space for those who, you know, wanna have the work from office model.

Yeah. And I, I believe that office is gonna come back, but you know, my personal, uh, paradigm of, I like to be in the office, I'm used to it. I've been doing. You know, 30 some years now. And, uh, I don't know if that's fair to assume that just because I, I believe it's, it's a better way to conduct business doesn't mean that it's, um, is gonna be the way of the future.

I do think it's gonna definitely, there's gonna be flexibility, even if, even if we do see a shift change and, um, away from sort of this work from home. But, uh, and I, you know, three, four days a week will be the, the norm at most 

[00:19:11] Andreas Senie: absolutely the hybrid hybrid workforce. Come in three, one off. 

[00:19:15] Art Rendak: I'm telling you right now, it feels like one or zero.

The, uh, the trains are still the trains to the city are still modestly, you know, better than they were when I first in the middle of the pandemic by far. But I, I get my own seat. I there's rarely any like congestion at the, at the at union station. So, 

[00:19:34] Andreas Senie: well, that's a blessing, right? Public 

[00:19:36] Art Rendak: transportation.

Yeah. I guess with COVID and all that. But, uh, yeah. Uh, you know, I think it's the way the SI the city needs, needs people. Um, you know, and, and, and you're in south Florida, I'm sure it's a little bit different because of Northeast 

[00:19:49] Andreas Senie: Connecticut. Oh, I'm show originally, which Jim free south Florida. 

[00:19:53] Art Rendak: I'm sorry. I keep messing that up.

I apologize. Uh, but I, you know, there's a, I walked past a lot of vacant, you know, storefront restaurants. And, uh, there's just not enough people to support the, the eight to five, you know, lunch, crowd, breakfast, crowd, coffee, crowd, and, um, and names, you know, like have closed. And, uh, and it's, um, you need people in the city.

You need the density to during the day to, to, you know, keep those, keep, uh, keep those, those businesses running and, and generate taxes for the city and all the other good things that, that have Lyft drivers, you 

[00:20:27] Andreas Senie: know, at the same time, we're, we're seeing this, this hyper focused. Partly because of that hybrid workforce into renovating these buildings or even changing the overall structure or more of a homelike environment, you know, it's, it's gotta be clean utilities.

It has to be health first. Yes. And include open space, even repurposing or rezoning different areas. So we can have these mixed use developments. But to your point, if they're not getting on the train, they're not showing up into the city. Yeah, I wouldn't move into New York right now. And I'm from New York originally.

uh, prices are, are great at the moment, but I, I like it here in the country, uh, away from mass transit, but it's a, yeah, 

[00:21:11] Art Rendak: no, the arguments, the arguments for the stay at home is, you know, are, are plentiful. I mean, it's an hour commute for some, you know, if you live in the suburbs and, uh, gas prices, obviously.

And, uh, so you you've lost two hours of productivity. If you're, you're sort of on a urban. Um, and if it get, you know, my, my belief is that if companies don't, you know, sort of require their employees to come the office, the ones who do come to the office are gonna find it to be, you know, relatively deserted.

Like it is behind me right now. It's after five here. But, uh, so, and you've got a generational share. People come to the office and they feel like they're being forced to come the office. That's relatively empty. They're just not gonna have that same vibe. And I think some of coming to work is, is sort of that coordinated, uh, you know, collaboration was the word of the year of three or four or five years.

Well, it 

[00:22:08] Andreas Senie: it's team building and, and Harvard business review how to study. We need to gather we as humans. Absolutely. Yeah. Now, and I'm not going into the metaverse on this. Whether that's virtually or in an office or, okay. What have you in the 

[00:22:22] Art Rendak: future? I dunno anything about the metaverse. So being 

[00:22:25] Andreas Senie: either, and I'm a, I'm a technologist there aren't there's I know it's goggles and it's coming one day.

I like, uh, zoom is a great bridge, you know, this mobility to video conference. So speaking of zoom, here you are. We're talking about whether to be in the office, not be in the office with COVID and, and the adoption of zoom and these tools to. sort of blend work from home and work at the office are loans closed.

Are, are you able to write and close loans faster? I mean, what are you looking at for your, for your closed time? Typically as you're out there looking, 

[00:22:58] Art Rendak: uh, you know, I'm old school, I come in the office, I read documents. Um, so, but yes, my team, uh, is not here or was not. Uh, lawyers are obviously have been virtual for the, you know, outside council's been virtual the whole, you know, for all the time I've been in the business.

And, um, so yeah, it can, it's definitely getting done. It's, you know, earnings during the pandemic were we're terrific for the most part for, for many companies, obviously the stock market exploded, um, once it, once it recovered from its, uh, initial, uh, you know, uh, mess, but, um, Yeah, work can definitely, I mean, we, the technology is able, allows us to get things done and we, we email and, you know, people read online and they're able to work from home and, you know, signing documents is, um, you know, obviously you can DocuSign or whatever.

The, I don't want to plug some a company or whatever, but, uh, uh, yeah, but it's faster, you're operating better. And, and, and obviously accommodations were made. I, I think, um, you. Probably it's agency would never allow you to do DocuSign on your loan documents and, and they did because they had no choice. So, and it's here to stay, certainly.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's all enforceable and all that. So I suppose there'd be some fraud and all this at some point, but hopefully not. 

[00:24:23] Andreas Senie: Very well with change. There's always the, the error, right? There's a, there's certain error. There's certain fraud, but we're adapting. Regulators are there. Uh, DocuSign is, is a great tool.

It's been around forever. Some of these new ones are a little, little tricky. Uh, dot loop is another one. I, I will shamelessly plug a company or two here. Okay. Uh, for different reason. But we're better. We're faster. We can work from home. We can work at the office. I like you. I'm a bit of a traditionalist. I like the office.

I also, as a broker, you know, if you're not pushing your product front of mind to everyone on the phone, you don't know what's happening. Right. So the one thing I've noticed is with email and everything else, there's, there's a lot to deal with. And so phone in person, just fantastic ways to do business.

Last I checked still true today. I hope. But talk to me more about you're back in the office, your team's not in the office. What are you guys lending on? What, what do you, what have you learned or what do you plan on doing as we head into this downturn, that's unique to your experience? What did, what was the big lesson you took from the, the great financial crisis?

The last one, as opposed to the prior? 

[00:25:34] Art Rendak: Yeah, I think, um, the, uh, sort of the value add. You know, like transitional, um, the longer the takes for the project to get stabilized, the, the more risk there is. And, uh, so we all like, you know, we, uh, us as value add lenders in the bridge space, we're lending on a story we're lending on.

And, uh, some, either it's a problem with the asset that needs to be fixed with probably capital and management expertise or it's. You know, a, a property that was doing fine for the seller and, but the BI there's potentially, uh, value to be created through rehabbing, like mostly in a multi-family space, you know, heavy, heavy renovation of a unit to generate more rent.

And, um, so you know, the small space, a we're not doing 500 unit projects that require, you know, extended period of time. If we're doing. A transitional multi-family deal. We, we we're willing, you know, again with multi-family being so, uh, liquid relatively to the other asset classes in our commercial real estate space.

I think we, you know, we'll take more risk on, on the, the, the, the level of transition, so to speak in the multi-family space. And, and our deals are typically a hundred units, something like that, 70 units. So we're, you know, even if every unit's occupied and you've gotta wait for the tenant to leave. You know, before you do your renovation, um, it doesn't take that long generally, right?

[00:27:07] Andreas Senie: Multifamily shortest cycle 

[00:27:09] Art Rendak: to, to you figure 6, 7, 8 units every month are gonna are gonna, uh, roll. And, you know, whether you ask the tenant to leave or you, you know, get them, you know, whatever you do to vacate those units, you can renovate them to increase their rents. Um, so here, here in the Northeast, the other, the other asset, other asset property types, you know, we're not as inclined to probably.

Uh, do like a lot of heavy lifting on those. Um, you know, I think self storage is a, is a, I, I love the product type. Um, and I'm looking at selfs storage because the asset is asset class is performed. I mean, in every, I mean, even every downturn virtually, um, the issue is it takes so long for the, uh, stabilization, but I think, you know, we've seen the evidence over all these different down cycle.

Because eventually, you know, it's, it's, you know, the thing is there's so much product, much more so than it used to be when it was the various entry were really much higher, but I still like the asset class, but it does take a long time. You know, when you, when you take a Macy's or some old department store and you turn it into a hundred thousand feet with 750, uh, still storage spaces, think, you know, it's even at 20 a month, it takes a long time to get to seven 50.

So. You know, that's something you gotta think about, but you know, we obviously, we love the asset class in the way it's performed in the down cycles. Um, absolutely. We're definitely looking at some stores 

[00:28:36] Andreas Senie: and you took the words outta my mouth, public storage, a great asset class. Then you've got, uh, warehouse space, something you're familiar with, uh, mixed use projects and hotels even.

Uh, are, are you guys doing any hotels, anything happening 

[00:28:49] Art Rendak: in that space? You know, I think, um, I think. Uh, you know, we're not, not, not looking at hotels, but I think we're, uh, extra cautious. Um, the con the, um, you know, certain markets on the leisure side have done very, very well, never even hardly missed to be, um, the ones, the ones who require business travel, uh, still seem to not, are not there yet.

And, uh, so I think you need, you know, I definitely look at one where the basis was at the right, right. Um, maybe somebody got picked up something at a, at a, at a good price and, uh, with good experience and, and maybe, uh, can, can re sort of resize the, the, uh, NOI potential for the, for the leverage. Well, 

[00:29:35] Andreas Senie: similar multi-family, uh, hotels, public storage.

These are all, these are all short term leases, right? You don't have a 10 year of blow market lease 10, 23rd, whatever it is, right. Locking you in, you can adjust up for right. Or try to catch up to inflation. Let's say it that way or make these changes just as an owner, 

[00:29:58] Art Rendak: obviously. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think you're right.

Self storage is, is definitely once a month, but it's pretty sticky for the, you know, again, I think we've got enough empirical evidence that, um, yeah, there's obviously turnover every month of some level, but it's, it's more often than not, and I'm a, I'm a customer, so I know how sticky. um, my rent has gone up, uh, you know, a ton and the, you know, two years I've had my, my unit, but, um, you know, yeah.

Does it make economic sense for me to go over there and move to across the street to the other guy who's given me one month free and you know, lower rate, but I don't do it. And I think it's, uh, I I'm guessing that I'm, you know, similar to other people, uh, that it just it's more work to move your stuff out of a unit across the street than it is.

Pay an extra 50 bucks that you, you know, doesn't make economic sense, but 

[00:30:49] Andreas Senie: no, it's, uh, it's a lot like data once it's somewhere, you know, you want to keep it there, you have your systems you're used to using it. Right. Uh, look at Excel 

[00:30:57] Art Rendak: for commercial, you know? Yeah. Changing, changing cable or moving your, you know, taking money, you know, transferring to a new bank.

It, you know, sometimes. Yeah. May you either get upset so much from the lake of service or something? You, you find that it's so much work to do all your automatic payments and everything to change banks, you just kinda look the other way and go, God, the service stinks, but I, you know, I'm too embedded in their, you know, embedded in my, you know, my, my routine.

Yeah. So, but, uh, self storage hotels are definitely the, would be the tricky one. So yeah, I was, if, if there is a, a difficult recession, I think there, you know, we, we obviously. um, from history that, that is, that is a tough asset class during a time when businesses are restricting travel or people are unemployed, they're, you know, obviously not gonna stay at hotel.

So, uh it's um, it's a tough, yeah, so it's a little tougher. You gotta, that's why I'm saying, I think we wanna see the basis, you know, and there should be some, some opportunities there. I would think, I think, um, there's, you know, there's a, there's a ton of hotels that are being converted to multi. Not a ton, but you know, I see a lot of those deals in my business.

And, um, you're not really sure about that. I, I think that, I think they've been successful. I just I'm, I'm a little, uh, I don't, I don't know about having a hotel with nothing but studios and, um, I, I don't know. I know it works and, and there's, we need the housing and I get all that. Um, but I just can't kind of get over it personally that I, you know, we have no diversity in our, in our unit unit offering.

[00:32:29] Andreas Senie: That's a fair point and, and you're right. Anybody, anybody who's, anybody will talk about how behind we are in housing. We were, we were behind as a country on housing in most markets, if not all markets practically before COVID, COVID simply accelerated this massive surplus of people out of cities, into areas where housing was already a problem in inflation.

And so on the rest of, you know, I know. So conversion, you know, anytime we can take a hotel, uh, an old mall, things of that nature and convert it. Why not phones are there? Uh, and it sounds to me like those are coming across your desk and, and Inland's happy to pull the trigger. That's that's a good move.

You're saying, 

[00:33:07] Art Rendak: oh yeah, I think we're, we're looking at it. I think it, um, you know, it is workforce housing in ways it's, uh, units are small, you know, I'm, I'm not talking about a gut, a raising of like a ultra limited service hotel. I'm just saying, I think one closed. You know, for whatever reason, maybe during the pandemic and someone's picking it up at a good basis and they're gonna try to squeeze, you know, a kitchen in there and, uh, maybe upgrade the bathrooms and, uh, you know, you've got the amenities, probably you've got a pool and maybe a gym and, and, uh, you know, maybe some meeting space that you can turn into some coworking and the site 

[00:33:42] Andreas Senie: work's done, you know, site work 

[00:33:44] Art Rendak: done, you got a lot, you got a ton of parking.

Um, but, uh, you know, you're talking about 350 square foot units or something like that. And, you know, 112 of 'em or something. It, it just, it, uh, it there's the micro thing worked. I, I, I thought it was gonna be deep in trouble during COVID, because I was like, who wanna live at 350 square foot unit? I know most of the micro unit guys, developers, um, have a lot of, uh, common space that, uh, uh, a, uh, you know, it makes it livable.

Yeah. So you're not like stuck in a, you know, small space, but, um, I think during COVID, obviously that stuff probably wasn't available to the tenant. Uh, the common space. So, you know, I wondered how all, if it seems like it all worked out, I don't hear anything about, you know, the micro-unit, uh, projects all going into default during any time.

So tiny. Well, 

[00:34:31] Andreas Senie: we can't exactly repurpose them without doing all the site work again. So it's, it's, it's certainly unique. Yeah. But, and I, I wanna touch back on this. You brought up office, you, you like office for many reasons. Here in the Northeast, we're seeing office owners, uh, condo them out, start selling, you know, pick up that cash.

Is that something you're seeing in Illinois? Is, is this just a trend? What, what 

[00:34:54] Art Rendak: are your S I know, I mean the office condo business, um, you know, it, it, I just, I don't, I didn't see it come back even, you know, after the recession, which, uh, it was a hot product, I wanna say, pre pre-recession, um, You know, and I think the medical field, it still has some value.

People can own their space, but, uh, you know, Florida was, was a hot place for me, for office condos and banks and maybe the SBA and things like that. We're financing them. But I think it's, you know, a little tougher to finance that, um, the product didn't really appreciate. It never really has. Um, we've seen these sort of, you know, the condo hotel business.

um, the office condo business, you know, really never it there's booms and then there's bust and the bus are, are horrid. And, uh, you know, it's, it's a lot of like a lot of things with the condo. The association is, is challenging and, um, the condo hotel business, I think it just never, you know, I don't know if it's over aggressive proforma or, but you know, when you're buying an individual unit, it's 600,000 and the, you know, when conventional hotels sell a 300,000 a.

You know, it, it's gonna take a lot for you to make some money in that one. I don't care who the, you know, who the sponsor is and, and how it may, you know, some of 'em work. I'm sure I'm, I'm over, over, uh, simplifying things. But, um, I, I, I, my gut is in general that those product types have, yeah, they'll come back like, cuz there's always some developer that, you know, comes, brings em back.

But, um, I, I just don't think they're ever gonna. Again, there's gonna be like a, you know, office condo market. Like there is, uh, some other product type that, you know, medical office or whatever we've data centers, you know, that have some that seem to have some sustainability. Um, and you know, they sort of new emerging asset classes.

I, I just don't see a condom, any condominium, uh, commercial condominiums as really something that I, I would foresee as 

[00:36:57] Andreas Senie: shy away 

[00:36:58] Art Rendak: from it. Well, it, we just it's. How many times have we gone through this? You know, and it's, it's, it's Florida, Texas. It's sort, it's like, uh, it seems more regional, vague. I think that Nevada had a, was a big office condo kind of place.

And, and there's, you know, a lot of medical users and again, maybe there's a niche for it. It, it's not people wanna own their space. They're gonna be there for 30 years. Um, you know, it's better than having rent increases every year, I guess, but. 

[00:37:26] Andreas Senie: Yeah. That's well for the, for the owner, it's it's that, that lump sum cash.

Right. And you're not worried about default, although you're saying the office, the office tenants, they're paying, everybody's paying yeah. People aren't in the office. So be it, um, they're moving forward, which is, which is, which is great news. That's what we wanna see. Although yeah. Um, although the majority of the workforce is returning to.

many have said that, that these offices need to now evolve into either newer buildings with, with healthier entities or simply smaller footprints to ACC accommodate hybrid work. So for me, that's where I'm looking up and down our main avenues and, and, you know, there are opportunity zones. Are these larger office buildings, cuz they have that vacancy.

Nobody's gonna come in and take 10,000 square feet right now. Um, From what we're seeing. Yeah. So let's see when we convert, let's see if that owner's ready to, to give us that, that opportunity, 

[00:38:22] Art Rendak: you know, we have a market here that's, that's sort of a hot new market. Um, New York, I think had, you know, Chelsea, uh, for a while there still does.

Um, we have it's called the west loop or the Fulton market area and, and, you know, tenants are moving in. They're they're coming from outta state. Uh, they might be coming from a suburban location. Um, there's a, there is workers in that area. It's a hip it's, it's, you know, a lot of nice new restaurants and a lot of new housing.

And it's, it's a, it's a vibrant area and office. Um, there's a lot of new development, which is amazing. Um, but I think from mostly it's poaching from people in the, uh, the old se you know, Yesterday's a hot, hot market. So, or the, you know, the, uh, the loop of our area here that's, uh, really, you know, has really suffered during the pandemic.

And, um, so I, I don't know. I, I, I'm not, you, I'm not really that bullish on office. I'm, I'm I'm really, you know, would be cautious about getting into an office deal, especially one that had, you know, a significant amount of vacancy or a bunch of rolling leases. Um, if the basis was right and it was well located, you know, like everything like our business, right.

It's it's, um, there's, you know, bad re retail we could talk about, um, it's, it's all about location in many cases and obviously the quality of the building, like you said, if you know a lobby that's tired space, that's tired. You, you better be just given away that space for super cheap. And, um, you know, I think, I think the one story office flexed had a lot of, lot of, uh, desire.

during the pandemic because you had your own space, you weren't sharing elevators and all that. We'll see if that's sustainable. Um, I, I think there's a, you know, the price is right. Office flex is a good product and, um, I think it's, it's, it's worked, you know, it's, it's gotta be just at the right value, right.

[00:40:17] Andreas Senie: Well, absolutely the number the numbers have to make sense. Yeah. Any deal. And if you torture 'em long enough, they'll tell you whatever you want. Exactly. Exactly. So what, what are the numbers coming in the door that, that you're gonna be excited about? What does that, what does the debt service ratio look like?

Where, where do you draw the line? 

[00:40:35] Art Rendak: Well, you know, it's obviously the higher, the better, but, uh, let's just go on the low end. I mean, um, you know, we're not afraid of a deal that doesn't have coverage today. Uh, again, it's gotta be the right product type. Um, you know, and, and generally not many deals, you know, that I see, um, unless they're super heavy transition, have, you know, no cash flow, you know, what, what you, what I see on those deals is an industrial that lost a big tenant.

Like the seller doesn't wanna deal with it. The market's so hot, his basis is so low. He's gonna. and our, my new guy who's, my borrower is gonna buy it. And he's gonna, he's got a mousetrap to, to fill up that vacant space. And again, it's, my business is, you know, if you throw capital at the project and as long as it underwrites properly, it'll work, you know, we should be able to fill a 25 foot clear industrial space in a, in a decent market.

The, because of the demand for industrial space is so great. And even if it's 30 years old or something, but. um, if it's got some functionality, you know, but we'll do that deal. Yeah, for sure. Um, obviously, you know, we're under, I'm under not obviously, but we're underwriting to the proforma, uh, at some future point in time.

So we may have, you know, light, we may have under one oh coverage on a apartment and that number's gonna go down as tenants are, are asked to leave for the renovation process or whatever. And so, you know, we just build in an interest reserve or. we try to, you know, we, we assess what the life of the project's gonna look like to the best of our abilities and, uh, you know, structure the loan accordingly.

Uh, but yeah, we want, um, this, you know, spreads have spreads are spreads have gone up a little bit for me. Um, but the index has gone up, uh, the index being, you know, live or sofa. Um, now sofa and, uh, so now my overall yield is a problem for my borrowers. And that's we talked about that in the beginning. You know, what we're looking at is, you know, negative leverage.

And, um, if you buy some at a five cap or you have a six, 6% exit cap and you're borrowing at seven, um, that is not, it's not usually a recipe for, you know, improving your IRR. It's a recipe for reducing your IRR. So, um, you, you know, we that's, that's a challenge. And, uh, so 

[00:42:58] Andreas Senie: are you looking. Are, are you taking a closer look at someone's track record, things like that to make sure that 

[00:43:05] Art Rendak: perform and fill it?

Oh, it's, you know, EV we all, all of us in the finance business, or if we worked at a bank, we learned about the five CS and I, I don't think I can rattle 'em off just right now, but, um, it's still still relevant character, you know, is one of those. And, uh, and obviously, you know, my borrowers are nationwide. I don't know them personally and many, you know, I'm not like a community banker.

Uh, I, you get a sense of somebody's, uh, record through what deals they've done. You know, you check their references, obviously if they've accumulated net worth and, and liquidity that's, that's pro you know, that's probably a good sign. Um, but, uh, yeah, obviously you want people who are, are good people. So, you know, we look at litigation and things like that.

And, um, and then obviously if they've they've, you know, bought something, fixed it up and sold. You know, three or four times, obviously we love repeat borrowers, just like every lender does like every business. Right. Does. But, um, so, and we are lucky. We have a lot of repeat borrowers. We're, we're working on, uh, several deals with one, uh, the retail space and they, you know, have always, they just do a good job.

They, they, they know the tenants know, um, and the retail business, especially, I think, uh, you've got to have the experience. You, you know, whether you have a great leasing team or you were a leasing person, But you gotta know the tenants, you gotta be able to go to the ICSC and, you know, you know, go to the, go to the tenant side of the floor and, and, um, you know, they, where they want you as much as you want them, because they know you'll deliver the store on time and, you know, meet their.

[00:44:38] Andreas Senie: Well, and, and ICSC Vegas for anyone who doesn't know, you should know it's great event. Uh, certainly ICSC has been a staple forever on your retail centers and speaking of retail centers and the different tenants. You have your national franchises, you you're coming in strip centers. Fantastic. Pull in, pull out.

Pandemic only helped this. Now, at least here again, Northeast, I live in Shelton. I love Shelton taxes are down. People are looking just in vacancy, but every owner I've spoken with spoken to that has one or two vacancies. They're not worried. They'd rather leave it vacant because of because they have these triple net tenants.

And I put that in quotes cuz triple net to different people in different parts of the country's country is a different thing. But in essence, quality tenants, quality rent, roll quality history is what you're saying. Those are the three big ones for you. You've got the background, you've got the rent roll, you've got the cash flow and you're not a criminal or 

[00:45:40] Art Rendak: at least not in real estate or highly litigious or, you know yeah.

Who banks, every time you, you know, you can, um, yeah, I think, I think retail is, is, you know, certainly the model space is not one that we would be involved with, but, um, is, is, is giving sort of retail, a bad name? I, I think retail is much more bifurcated. Uh, the headline sort of leads you to believe. Um, you know, I don't know, you know, I, I think, you know, you drive past the strip center, even some power centers and, and they're packed every weekend and, and, uh, even miles to some degree, you know, that are still have some vibrancy left to him.

Um, so people, you know, we'll see with the recession inflation and all that. Um, certainly I think the LA, you know, look at sales for some of the grocers. I mean, just exploded and, uh, you know, people eating at home obviously. And some, so they'll see some retraction there, but, um, at the same time you've got, you know, you've got some big box tenants who I think maybe were able to, uh, buy some time during the pandemic with, uh, you know, discounts on their rent or, or shop from home or whatever it was that, that, that, that they were able to sustain them.

I think they're gonna be facing the music. I think, you know, I don't wanna mention any names, but I think there's been some headlines, at least, uh, one giant, relatively giant company with big box, uh, you know, multiple big box stores. Uh, that's closing down. That's gonna be in deep trouble and their stock is, is melting.


[00:47:12] Andreas Senie: so, um, and we're, we're getting close to the top of the hour here. What is your take on, on gas stations? We're, you know, we're committed as countries all over the world to get to net zero emissions. Great. Great. You know, gas prices are soaring. 

[00:47:27] Art Rendak: Yeah. Set asset class. I, I, uh, I'm, I'm amazed that, you know, there's expansion and the, and this, you know, I, I think, um, like Wawa I think is, is still, you know, going crazy, relatively on, on, on and, and space space.

I, I mean, I, it seems counterintuitive to the electric vehicle. A revolution that apparently we're all gonna be facing, but I, I'm not, I'm not, uh, you know, I'm, I'm obviously wanna see the climate be in a better place. And I, I support electric vehicles. I, I think I'm probably more in favor of the hybrid, uh, right model.

And, uh, so I, I think the gas stations are not, not dumb. And, um, certainly Wawa is not a dumb company and, and BP. And, and others. And, um, so I either they're gonna have charging stations at those, you know, what I, one of the things I did hear, and I'm not sure I didn't verify it, but that, um, you know, because it probably takes a little bit longer to charge and who knows what the technology will be, you know, when you're pulling in with your EV uh, you know, four years from now.

But, um, because it does take, I guess, a little bit longer to charge your vehicle, that the convenience store. Actually has more value and obviously, or for those of us who know anything about the, the gas station business, the money's made in the store, not in the, not at the pump, 

[00:48:52] Andreas Senie: despite what you believe, it's all, it's

[00:48:58] Art Rendak: you throw you slot machine or two, and the, uh, dark in the gas station, uh, in the convenience store and things like that. It could be, you know, maybe a different, uh, business model, which is beneficial to them. I, I, yeah, I'm, I'm shocked as anybody, um, that there's more gas stations, not, you know, it's not like every day, but there's, you know, one, uh, uh, on the corner by me that just is, is opening.

And, um, I think seven Eleven's expanding. Um, obviously they're more of a convenience store than, than a gas purveyor, but, or gasoline pur, but, uh, you know, it it's, it's, it's, uh, I, I didn't, I'm not, you know, with credit on the lease for 20 years, I, I have no problem with it. Yeah. Thinking loan that one. Well, I 

[00:49:40] Andreas Senie: love that.

So, uh, inland is always developing inland is clearly renting. Yeah. You're busy at work, which is 

[00:49:47] Art Rendak: fantastic. Yeah. Inland and the rest of inland is very busy. It just, uh, you know, I think I just saw a statistic 1.7 billion of, of assets acquired. So, um, this, this campus is buzzing with, uh, with business occurring.

[00:50:03] Andreas Senie: Uh, I love talking with anybody at inland, your story, your culture, the speed and accuracy at which you execute on transaction transactions is fantastic. You spoke about south Florida before, and I remember talking to different brokers. You guys showed up in January and by Christmas, entire centers had been turned over and, and fully leased up.

Yeah. At one point. So it's, it's, it's a great thing to see you guys operating at at this level, as you always have, which is F. As far as what to look out for here at the top of the hour, if you were gonna give one piece of advice to the developers out there, the people looking to borrow money, what is that big piece of advice as we had into the, the fall here?

[00:50:45] Art Rendak: You know, it's, it's the same, it's the same. I tell 'em whether the economy was great or not. It's it's, um, you know, it location, uh, it it's, um, you know, obviously capitalizing your property. I think, I think we've seen it through, you know, now my four down cycles, like we talked about, if you, you need patient capital to, uh, patient capital always wins.

It seems like, you know, yeah. They make a mistake. They buy the wrong, they buy a property just in the wrong place. I don't care how patient their capital is, but, um, generally these site, and I think we've seen it with banks the way they handle their customers. You're seeing more kicking the can and things like that.

These, these, the assets, hopefully you lent on were, were solid. And, um, and when you're buying them too, if you, you know, you make the right decisions in the right locations with the right underwriting, if you, you know, if you push for an, our market, let's say $4 a foot, you know, multifamily, rent, um, it's just, it, you you're, you're stretching and it's a, you know, it's yeah, I get it.

You, you know, you gotta deploy capital, you believe in the market. You know, you think you can push rents up that high or whatever, but if you're the only guy doing it, it's tough. I mean, you know, I I'm, I'm not a developer. Obviously I get a check every two weeks. Um, I'm a little different, but, um, and I'm, I come at it from the lending side, but I would definitely, you know, fundamentals are, are super important.

Um, I think they guide, you know, my, my decisions and I hope, uh, they do. And the folks who I lend to and the folks who, uh, I think are sustainable in. 

[00:52:26] Andreas Senie: so, and, and it's, it's, you know, uh, middle of the herd, right? Don't, don't try to, to overreach and, and that's, that's the best advice out there as much as we wanna a upgrade slam on that, on the, on our, uh, yeah.

[00:52:39] Art Rendak: And, you know, Hey, if you're a new, if you're a new, new to the business, or you wanna put some money into a property, you know, you've been a leasing broker, you wanna buy something or you, whatever. Um, you know, you're not probably gonna have the luxury of patient capital. You're gonna take, you know, the capital that you.

um, within reason and, and, you know, unfortunately, you know, it's probably gonna be, Hey, I, I want my money back in three years or two years. And, um, you know, that's just, sometimes that's just the way it is, but, uh, um, yeah, luck never hurt anybody that to be hit things at the right time. But, um, I think ultimately location will get you get your money back and then some, and, uh, you know, obviously you gotta work hard, you gotta do the right thing on the property and you can't be lazy.

You can't, you. It wastes 

[00:53:23] Andreas Senie: time. It is work 

[00:53:24] Art Rendak: at the end of the day's not making money has never been easy for most people. So yeah, no, it's, 

[00:53:29] Andreas Senie: um, it, it's an interesting thing. How easy people think it can be to be a broker? Yeah. To be the lender, just to, to be the developer. 

[00:53:38] Art Rendak: I mean, oh, we, yeah. We, I hear, I mean, and it happens in retail mostly, cuz I think it's one product type that most people, you know, drive in and they think it's, it's nothing.

But uh, yeah. It's, there's so many people that say I'm gonna buy the shopping center. I'm a doctor. And I'm gonna, you know, it, you, you work like 14 hours a day doing what you do for a living. Um, you're gonna let you know. Yeah. I guess you can hire third parties left and right. But it isn't, it is way tougher than that.

I just, I can't, I can't articulate it anymore than that to say that. You can just hire, you know, even the best leasing broker it's, you need to be on top of your deals and, 

[00:54:13] Andreas Senie: uh, well, and, and, um, borrowing aside if you're gonna invest in real estate, why not invest in, uh, TST over there at inland? Where there you go for you.

There's a shameless plug, although I'm a firm believer in, in, not just that, but, uh, owners, fractionalized ownership. In all the new vehicles that are coming, there are ways to invest. 

[00:54:32] Art Rendak: Yeah. If you wanna be a passive investor, Inland's a good place to to talk to, uh, they, they will do the work for you and, uh, they will do a good job for you, but, uh, if you're on your own, you wanna be a passive investor and you're, it's your money.

And you're, you're gonna be the hundred percent owner. I'm not a big fan of it. 

[00:54:48] Andreas Senie: Hundred percent headaches. When, if you're the a hundred percent owner, right? So that all being said, Mr. Mendoza here, the man behind the curtain, we are at five minutes to the hour. This has been a fantastic conversation. I wanna first thank you a for coming back, coming on, talking, sharing everything, you know, An insider view over at inland in the industry, four cycles, four downturns, not worried at all, focus on your key asset classes.

Uh, and don't overextend haha. Pun intended for you lenders out there. Yeah. Um, and to move into the space. So, uh, to reach you, at what point should I, as an owner investor, start reaching out to you, when do you, and how we're gonna throw up your information while 

[00:55:32] Art Rendak: you just talk through your, you know, it's, um, We work we're quick, but it's still, uh, it's still a process to get a loan closed.

We're non-recourse so we're institutional. So, you know, realistically 30 to four 30 days is, is, is pretty fast. 45 is more than norm. And, uh, so I would say if you're, you know, under LOI and you think you've got the deal, um, start, start talking to lenders, you know, just talk to me, but, uh, first, but. Start talking to lenders about that time, because, um, you're gonna need to get a stoppel potentially if it's not an apartment building and there's just a lot of work, uh, you know, it's not just buying the property and get, you know, there's a lot of due diligence, uh, that you know, that you're gonna be doing as a buyer that you you're, that I'm gonna have to do, you know, sort of piggybacking off of, of your due diligence as a, as a borrower.

So. Um, yeah, 40, I would definitely say as soon as humanly possible, you think you've got the property tied up? Uh, you know, cause you're, if you need a close in seven days, you're gonna, you're gonna pay for it. Not gonna be for me, but you're gonna be paying for it from some other lender. Who's probably gonna charge a lot of money for that loan.

And uh, if you're willing to pay it, then, then you know, maybe you get a good deal on the asset. I don't know. But, uh, 

[00:56:53] Andreas Senie: well, so, uh, it's funny you say it that way. Whenever I'd recommended. Different lenders to investors. It's always, and I'm not gonna name any of 'em at this point. It's, by the way, if this guy says don't do it, you probably shouldn't do it.

But if you go to this guy, he's gonna give it to you. Yeah. yeah. That's it sounds like. Um, and from what I know about inland, I mean, you guys are right there in the middle. You're gonna, if a deal is worth doing, you're there to. But 45 days. Yeah. You got, you gotta build in the time. You've gotta have that experience.

[00:57:24] Art Rendak: Um, yeah. Yeah. Inland, inland has the ability, you know, to do things faster than the buy side. And again, I'm just, I'm the lender. So I'm, I'm at a different seat than a lot of people here at inland, but, um, yeah, from the lending side, it's, uh, realistically, you know, it can, can things be done quicker? Yeah. If the deal's not complicated, but generally it's it's, I would say 30 days at the least in 40.

Um, it, it preferred a preferred timeframe to, from, uh, application to close. 

[00:57:55] Andreas Senie: All right. And as, as we've said, repeatedly three to 15 million give or a take little smaller, little bigger. Yeah. Great location. Reach out 

[00:58:05] Art Rendak: and start working. Thank you. It was great. It was a quick hour. It was, uh, went by 

[00:58:08] Andreas Senie: fast. Yeah.

And thank you. I wanna thank our audience for tuning. Uh, miss, please do remember to like rate, review us, share post. Uh, we are available anywhere. You get your audio and on all major social media channels. Don't forget to tune in first Thursday of every month. For the crack I round table with all our hosts.

And we hope to have you back art for another sector interview and looking forward to, to seeing more deals come outta inland and more loans, uh, that you're right there 

[00:58:41] Art Rendak: doing that would, that would be wonderful. I'm glad I, uh, thanks for the time. I really appreciate it. Thank you. 

[00:58:49] Andreas Senie: And with that, Mr. Renza, will you lead us?